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The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

cityobservatory.org

131–140 of 143 posts

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#131
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And millions of them don't. Educational outcomes, crime (both as victim and perpetrator), and mental health are all worse for those who grew up in cities, and not just slightly worse. Much worse.

The worst are rural areas, currently. It has nothing to do with housing layout and a lot to do with availability of jobs etc.

No, it absolutely is not.

And even if that were true, we're talking about suburbs, not rural areas.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin has all of those,(albeit it is one of the highest open space cites there are) hell London has over 20 skateparks that is just for skating that is before you consider a lot of the Thames bank serves as open parkside. With the only traffic pedestrians and boats on the water. High density doesn't have to mean no space, it does have to mean no space for autos though, they simply take up too much space. If you have…

Why are you saying "no space for cars"? You need to build multistory and underground garages here and there and you are all set.

Because that is a fundamental point that seems to often be missed in density discussions. Cars are great for low density areas and appealing at high density areas where as mass transit is great at high density but awful at low.density this why park and ride stations outside the city are a thing.

Even if you could build miltistory underground car parks you still need roadway space. German narrow gauge trams quite happily chug Elon in two directions on 10 feet carry highway capacity traffic one highway lane is 12 feet. They don't need the space. So car traffic takes up much more space that means you can't have the same density. If you don't have those cars you could put all the factories and warehouse space underground and you would have even more surface room this would allow a higher density of people. To imagine this take a look at your closest city on Google maps and how much space is taken up by car parks and roads now if you can reduce that use to 20% while keeping the same city boundaries, the density of the city hasn't changed but a lot more land is available. How much bigger can your house be if the highway is only one lane wide? How many more people can you add in?

You would also have the issue of getting people to and from the miltistory underground but that is exactly what happens on car free areas. You take the tram/bus/train pick up your car/rental/rideshare/uber at the multi story car park and continue on from there. If it's right on the major highways around the area you reduce a lot of the traffic headaches.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#133

What a load, I've never been to a city that wasn't a disgusting concrete nightmare. God forbid you want to raise kids, say goodbye to playing outside. I'll take my cozy yard and breathable air, thanks

https://www.google.com/search?q=vauban+freiburg

5000 people in just over 0.32 miles, plenty of trees and Greenspace.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#134

this article is a little strange since Atlanta has something like a 20 year supply of condos in midtown/surrounding for very affordable prices. Single family in-town homes, however, are scarce.

The basis for the 14? New apartment buildings in Atlanta is that we are drastically understocked, also why rents are climbing to $2k for a luxury 1br. Most evidenced by new luxury apartments at West end station with surprising rents for a studio (targeting pilots) Most single family homes seem unattainable (going over ask price, quickly) in the North of the city, but South and West are still cheap and attainable.

buying a condo seems to be cheaper than renting the same amount of space (per-month, anyway).

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see: Drunks/junkies/mentally ill people shitting, pissing, and vomiting everywhere, while verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing the passers-by. Noise. Breathing the stench of exhaust fumes, week-old garbage, and someone else's idea of cooking. Having no place for your children to sit on the grass without worrying about them finding someone's discarded needle or excrement. Having no space for gardens, hobb…

+1 My favorite part of the suburbs is that my kids are physically incapable of walking or biking to an urban area. When they have grown to acquire the sense to look out for themselves, then they coincidentally will have the freedom (e.g. drivers license) to go to an urban place. Until then, I love that I can let them just go outside without supervision and dick around. American urbanity is just not for families.

I grew up in a such a suburb, incapable of walking or biking to an urban area, and it was painful, unbearably boring. Even after the light rail system came in and it became possible to get downtown, I still felt trapped and lonely in that neighborhood. Perhaps it is more convenient for you, while you raise them; but if your children are having an experience anything like mine, they're going to move far away once they're able, then do their best never to come back.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#136
post #2

>If so many people live in suburbs, it must be because that’s what they prefer, right? But the evidence is to the contrary. This article makes its point from the book "Zoned Out" (2005.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the argument is that zoning policies make suburban sprawl, not free markets. They argue that if zoning restrictions were lifted and development responded to free market forces, higher density hous…

> They argue that if zoning restrictions were lifted and development responded to free market forces, higher density housing would result and more people would prefer that to sprawl. I think this is half true (that zoning regulations have caused a good amount of sprawl) but I think that other posters here are right that the free market may also create sprawl, as it will respond to preferences and cultural biases that…

Some of the free market attempts in the UK ended up with Milton Keynes which is pretty much the American auto style roads come first. While others ended up with city of London which is highly walkable and dense being just over a square mile. Cost of land and transit is probably the deciding factors for the free market. Conversely regulation has given more walkable areas (mixed zones, offices, and small retail on the street with residental) so it's not just a case of the amount of regulation but what they say.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#137

What a load, I've never been to a city that wasn't a disgusting concrete nightmare. God forbid you want to raise kids, say goodbye to playing outside. I'll take my cozy yard and breathable air, thanks

Have you been to any non-US city? You should try it...

I have, they are awesome. I've never been to a US city though. The idea of the inner city being the poor area or bad area is bizzare and culture shock. That's usually where all the good apartments are.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 My favorite part of the suburbs is that my kids are physically incapable of walking or biking to an urban area. When they have grown to acquire the sense to look out for themselves, then they coincidentally will have the freedom (e.g. drivers license) to go to an urban place. Until then, I love that I can let them just go outside without supervision and dick around. American urbanity is just not for families.

I grew up in a such a suburb, incapable of walking or biking to an urban area, and it was painful, unbearably boring. Even after the light rail system came in and it became possible to get downtown, I still felt trapped and lonely in that neighborhood. Perhaps it is more convenient for you, while you raise them; but if your children are having an experience anything like mine, they're going to move far away once they…

I'm curious, what would you have done downtown as a kid because pretty much everything I can think of to do downtown requires money which I didn't have as a kid.

Also, are you planning on having kids and raising them in the city?

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see: Drunks/junkies/mentally ill people shitting, pissing, and vomiting everywhere, while verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing the passers-by. Noise. Breathing the stench of exhaust fumes, week-old garbage, and someone else's idea of cooking. Having no place for your children to sit on the grass without worrying about them finding someone's discarded needle or excrement. Having no space for gardens, hobb…

I live in DC and experience exactly 0 of any of that. Your imagination of a "city" seems to be based entirely on the Mission district of SF. I would suggest travel.

I've seen all of that in every city in the US I have been to. That does not surprise me whatsoever about Washington DC though because Washington DC is a city dedicated to running the most powerful government in the world. I doubt any city has as tight of security as Washington DC.

Re: The myth of revealed preference for suburbs

#140
The Boston suburbs are what my ideal neighbourhood looks like.

Extremely close to the city and well connected through transit. Safe, with great schools and communities. All this while downtown is never more than 30 minutes by transit and the neighbourhood is still extremely walkable.

Parking is still an issue, and the NE weather can be terrible at times. But that apart, I really like those areas.

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