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Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

nytimes.com

51–60 of 173 posts

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#51

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution.

On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The companies I have worked for would defend the IP and would constitute these as "offensive" patents, because they would use it to actively stop upstarts.

On the other hand, I also have worked with lawyers to just patent ideas I had off hand. These are "defensive" patents, and go into the patent arsenal, containing hundreds to thousands of patents, to be used if someone decides to sue. These are just "ideas" and often will only have the most basic design(s) and testing (if at all).

Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell the difference, and more over - I don't think it's fair (personally) to patent something that doesn't exist in reality yet.

What's even more frightening to me personally, is that I am morally opposed to patenting... However, when someone offers me $1k, $3k, $5k, etc. to work with them to file a patent I'm incentivized to file. I have to be pragmatic for my family.

For reference, I'm on or currently working through filing close to 150 patents.

For each one, I donate a portion to the EFF; for what it's worth...

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#52
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a multi-billion dollar corporation with a history of obfuscating the truth and a terrible record on privacy. With the power they have they deserve scrutiny. I agree that selecting patents isn't a very convincing aproach but it is another data point. Could it just be that NYT is printing a lot of negative articles because they're are a lot of incidents involving Facebook doing something wrong?

I think it's pretty obvious considering how shallow and frequent the reporting is that this isn't traditional media criticism. There are real issues with Facebook that are not new but they have nothing to do with "creepy patents" or Facebook giving data to Chinese phone makers. (Who, you know, make the phone. ) The NYT subjects no other corporation to this sort of scrutiny. In fact it's difficult to the recall any an…

I think you may be correct about the NYT and FB.

I personally assume that all news outlets are biased one way or another. And I do not believe there's a news outlet anywhere which is totally fair, unbiased and objective.

It seems reasonable to guess that the NYT's leadership believes FB is extremely influential in US politics and that it is imperative that FB avoid facilitating another 2016-style presidential campaign. In addition, most of the NYT's readership almost certainly believes that FB helped unfairly swing the election to Trump through illegal Russian funded ads and so forth, and it's good for business for a paper to cater to that readership.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#53

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

> For each one, I donate a portion to the EFF; for what it's worth...

What a great idea. Thanks

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#54

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

150 patents?! Dear god, you are part of the problem. You clearly know it’s wrong but you do it anyway.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#55
post #37

I have to give it to FB - it's impressive how does their personal information collection and inference work. I was recently called by their recruiter - despite me being off FB for a few years, with inactive LinkedIn profile and keeping my current career info offline, they were perfectly informed what I am up to. Google messaged me as well. It's pretty amazing they could figure it out, even if I didn't really hide any…

Your employment history isn't private information. It's sold by data brokers to companies for recruiting.

But who sells it to the data brokers?

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#56
Hey folks,

I helped out a little with this piece. Aside from being happy to answer questions — I want to share a few bonus interesting Facebook patents that didn't quite make the final cut:

In "Systems and methods for directing messages based on social data" (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180041464A1/en), Facebook talks about creating "user influence scores" as a metric of your reputation on the social network. It talks about how, "the user influence score can be decreased when the sender is reported to be associated ... with undesired content." Or can be decreased when your friends are "reported to be associated with undesired content."

In "Multi-Factor Location Verification" (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170261590A1/en), Facebook ponders how to accurately track your location when you have your phone's GPS turned off. The phone can ping nearby RFID readers, NFC systems, see a nearby Bluetooth device, or the MAC address of your router, or the wifi SSID. But that's the easy stuff — what if you have your phone turned off entirely? The patent discusses tracking your location based on your calendar events, concert tickets, and dinner reservations: “A location determination method may include advanced knowledge of the user's intended or estimated location, such as a reservation for an event at a particular time (e.g. restaurant, theater, concert…)”.

In "Identifying users of client devices for tracking user interactions..." (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170353564A1/en), Facebook discusses the problem of shared computers, where different family members may use the same web browser, and therefore the same tracking cookies. The patent discusses how to feed the web browsing and activity data into a "user identity matching module", which figures out which Facebook profile to attach the activity log to based on what you're doing online. Shopping for motorcycle parts? Log it for the husband. Dora the explorer? Probably the kid. Works just as well when you're logged out.

If you guys have any favorite mildly disturbing personal surveillance patents — please share! They're fun to collect.

And in related news — this piece running this weekend turned out to have interesting timing. This week the Supreme Court ruled, somewhat tangentially, on digital privacy, in Carpenter v. United States. The narrow majority opinion held that your cell phone tower location data should not be available to government search without a warrant. The five justices wrote about 24/7 location tracking: "Only the few without cell phones could escape this tireless and absolute surveillance."

And then some of the even more interesting argumentation came in the dissents — especially Gorsuch's.

He seems to want to develop an even stronger constitutional protection for personal data, throwing out the current "third party doctrine", and rooting it instead in a more expansive reading of the Fourth Amendment. He writes: "Can the government demand a copy of all your e-mails from Google or Microsoft without implicating your Fourth Amendment rights?" And "Just because you entrust your data — in some cases, your modern-day papers and effects — to a third party may not mean you lose any Fourth Amendment interest in its contents."

I know it's wishful thinking, but I'd love to see a day when "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures..." covered all of the personal data hoards that Facebook and Google have amassed.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#57

It's crazy how the large companies file so many patents for any idea their employees can think of. We used to have a lawyer come to our desks once a month and they would try patent any idea you could come up with even off the top of your head. Not sure how small companies can compete when larger companies can buy up all the IP in a space without having to do any work. The smaller companies I've worked for have to be…

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#58
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are algorithms that, in my opinion, would deserve a patent, though. Software can, in some cases, be more clever than e.g. mechanical inventions. It would be unfair if one inventor could apply for a patent, while the other could not.

Should we allow for algorithms to be patented though? To reserve something so abstract would be near equal to claiming a mathematical formula for oneself. If IBM had patented the fast Fourier transform, where would signal processing be?

I used to be absolutely against software patents on those grounds, but I nowadays actually think it's a weak argument.

We don't see people arguing we shouldn't patent physical machines because ultimately each operation is a simple physical movement, so the sum of everything is just a sequence of physical movements.

Yet we see people arguing we shouldn't patent software "machines" because ultimately each operation is a simple mathematical operation, so the sum of everything is just a sequence of mathematical operations.

The argument against the patentability of maths, AFAIK, has always been "maths is naturally inherent and merely discovered by humans". This, to me, is an argument against pure maths especially; but as we get into applied maths I think it's much less arguable that algorithms and data structures are naturally inherent (much like how physical constructions—machines—aren't naturally inherent from the laws of physics).

I still strongly think far too many patents get issued, but I'm less convinced than I used to be software patents are inherently bad, and that patents do need reform in various ways.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has multiple issued patents from large companies.. It's a pretty complex issue. I personally think software patents should be outlawed, as I don't know a better solution. On the one hand, I have several patents for project(s) that took years to develop. The processes are unique, very difficult to replicate, and should be offered some protection (if we agree that motor designs should be protected). The…

150 patents?! Dear god, you are part of the problem. You clearly know it’s wrong but you do it anyway.

It's like mutually assured distruction.

Almost no one involved with software patents think they are a good idea, but until everyone backs down at the same time, you gotta keep doing it or that one evil player will destroy everyone.

I don't think software patents should exist, but I've worked on a bunch (and have a few myself). Not a single person I've worked with in that process, including the lawyers, thinks software patents are good.

But if my company didn't file them, then another patent troll or big evil corp could sue us out of existence.

By having a huge patent library, it make the discussion easier. The big companies just get together and decide to cross license all their patents at no cost to either party. But if you don't have a big inventory of patents, then the company that does won't want a cross licensing deal.

Re: Facebook’s patents show a commitment to collecting personal information

#60
post #31

You need data to build technologies of the future and continue improvement of living standards. We (Western countries) should make it as easy as possible to collect and share it between businesses, and embrace it culturally if we want to stay relevant in AI-powered future.

I hope this is satire
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