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Bitcoin is a Cult

adamcaudill.com

101–110 of 232 posts

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the public sector, we’ve done quite a few proof of concepts on blockchain over the years, because we have actual use cases where a decentralized system makes sense. Like land registry, keeping bi-temporal records and case flows where citizens can follow their progress from home. We’ve yet to make it work though. Decentralized voting is too vulnerable and mining is too anti-climate, so it’s really all turnin…

Blockchains aren't searching for a reason to exist either. Decentralized currencies/conmodities not controlled by any single entity are an obviously useful thing.

> Decentralized currencies/conmodities not controlled by any single entity are an obviously useful thing

Obviously useful things have obvious uses.

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#102
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any network-effect driven product is a cult "The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal" [1]. Membership connotes devotion. That is different from network effects. For example, telephones benefit from network effects. Buying a telephone does not join one onto a cult. (Buying Bitcoin,…

> Buying Bitcoin, alone, does not admit one into a cult, either. It’s the behaviour of the community around Bitcoin that exhibits cult-like tendencies. In that case, is Bitcoin really a cult? or is there a cult that is using Bitcoin?

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#103
post #80
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many differences (of course!) but one common strand is that both are elements of the adherent's identity. In the case of Crypto there is another defining commonality - which is life style and life chances. Religions provide a vehicle (the community) which provides adherents with different chances from those outside, Crypto does the same - via money... if you have invested you might be rich, or poor, but you…

Right. I agree. I am also going one step further and arguing that crypto is more of a fan club then a cult. There are cults way stronger that illicit a far greater emotion reaction that crypto. Even now, when the price is in the toilet, a lot of really smart people are having sane discussions across sub-reddits. And those very smart people are still checkin in code and making improvements. This has happened before. D…

> BBS era and ARPA Net era

These services were launched to solve a practical problem. Bitcoin was launched as the manifestation of an ideology.

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#105

When I first got into bitcoin I thought it could be a wonderful alternative to the current monetary system, I especially hoped it would be more equitably shares. Unfortunately it’s turned out to be as unequally shared as our current wealth is, if not more. Perhaps some kind of coin where everybody in the world is issued the same amount or something.

There is Manna, formerly GrantCoin, which is about basic income. They issue every person with an account about $0.006 every week, so it's inflationary.

> issue every person with an account

Every wallet, not every person.

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they ban it in Copenhagen and Berlin? In general? Or just not enough demand so they threw it out?

It’s not illegal, it’s just really inconvenient. Today we’ve linked instant payment methods to our credit cards, if the card isn’t rfid enabled on its own. So you just swipe your payment method and you’re done. We even have a banking app that lets you instantly transfer funds between you, between banks as well, for free. Called mobile pay. So smaller stores that can’t afford to have a credit card system, use that. So…

I'm guessing it's more to do with transaction times than anything. A merchant needs to wait 10, 20 or 30 minutes to get a confirmation in Bitcoin, because he can't be sure there will not be a double-spend of the money until it is confirmed.

Technically, this has always been the case, but there was a false belief that 0conf transactions were secure, because Bitcoin clients rejected double-spend attempts by default (as a DoS protection). This prevention of double-spending unconfirmed transactions was never part of the protocol though, and it was made clear when Replace-by-fee was added, which shows how clients can easily replace existing transactions with new ones, without changing the Bitcoin protocol.

There's still a crowd who believe that 0conf transactions are fine, and RBF should be removed (eg, the Bitcoin Cash developers), but it's really just ignoring the reality that RBF is not an enforcible protocol rule, but a client-side policy in the software. It's probably fine to use 0conf for small transactions because it is manageable risk, similar to accepting credit cards where payments can be reversed.

Another possible solution to faster payments is with payment channels, where the risk of double-spending is mitigated by hashed time-locked contracts which are transmitted between parties and not broadcast over the Bitcoin network until one of the parties wants to reclaim their funds onto the Bitcoin network. Since the parties are just exchanging HTLCs over a TCP connection, they're practically instant, the fees are low or nil, and there is a potential privacy improvement by not revealing every transaction into the Bitcoin ledger. This is in development (minimally working on Lightning Network now), but proceeding quite slowly.

If Bitcoin is going to have widespread global usage, these problems need to be overcome so that it is as simple, or simpler to use than credit cards for the average user. It possibly is simpler to set up for merchants already, if they're technical enough, because they don't have to involve 3rd party payment processors.

The other side to it is that we take credit cards for granted in the developed world, and often miss that there are a billion or more people without banks in the developing world. These are the people who have the real use-case for Bitcoin. A single user can set up a Bitcoin node on a smartphone in some remote village, and suddenly bring banking capability to their entire village. I think that's a very strong use case. People are also using it to hedge against their national currencies which are being hyper-inflated by their own governments - as is happening in Venezuela right now.

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#107
post #96
post #9

Any network-effect driven product is a cult.

small correction: s/is/starts out as/g To the telephone counter-examples in the responses: early telephone users were probably "culty" until the mainstream adopted it for useful stuff.

> early telephone users were probably "culty"

Telephones strapped onto the telegraph network. After that, they were “leased in pairs” [1]. It wasn’t until 1889 that switches were deployed. Only the could these bilateral-only phones begin talking to each other. (This is also when network effects began emerging.)

TL; DR Telephones, like most useful technology, established themselves in a small niche and then scaled from that base. Its success in its niche wasn’t driven by zeal, but by usefulness.

[1] https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-the-telephone-alexander...

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#108
post #44

r/bitcoin comes to mind whenever I think of the words "Bitcoin" and "cult" in the same sentence.

If you want to read an interesting story read this. https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/info...

Ugh. These silly conspiracy theories don't hold up to reality. An overwhelming majority of the technical development community, wider community and industry was and still is supportive of Bitcoin's scaling roadmap. Trying to attribute that to Blockstream or to the moderation policies of a subreddit (among hundreds of online bitcoin communities) is just silly and not grounded on any facts.

See my previous comments on that topic for some more info:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15774816

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15033611

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15033489

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15026822

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13911867

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13627362

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#109
post #52

There is, without a doubt, a Bitcoin cult. Or more generally, crypto-currency cults. The headline reads like it's only a cult, which isn't the case. Even the most critical observer must concede that these distributed networks are novel and interesting. The farther you move from social media, the less cult-like things get. The best discussion remains on listservs, and there is a lot of interesting and substantive disc…

A lot of things are cults and it doesn't have to do much with social media or the behaviors he is outlining. Apple - You can argue Apple, the hardware company, is a cult. The fans are rabid in their support for the company. Often the discussions are not at all civil and in this particular case there is no financial incentive. Let's move even farther away. There are cults for clothing companies. Companies that make dr…

> Apple - You can argue Apple, the hardware company, is a cult. The fans are rabid in their support for the company. Often the discussions are not at all civil and in this particular case there is no financial incentive.

According to Wikipedia, Apple has sold 1.2 billion+ iPhones. Are you going to tell me that all of those people are going to “rabidly” support Apple?

No way.

What you are seeing is a very vocal very small minority.

Re: Bitcoin is a Cult

#110
post #74
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to read an interesting story read this. https://old.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/info...

Thank you, that was a great read. As someone that's only ever been interested at the periphery of Bitcoin (though generally interested in the applicability of blockchain tech and the technical problems with same), I was not aware of any of this. Would this story be considered common knowledge among the Bitcon literati? I find it hard to fathom how anybody could rationally invest in BTC knowing this story. Surely this…

Don't believe everything you read online, especially in the Bitcoin space, which is flooded with nonsense, conspiracies and deception promoted to push agendas. I highly recommend you do some more independent research before taking your parent comment at face value.
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