Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, being positive solely for the sake of being positive short-circuits our ability to process a decently large chunk of life. This isn’t to say that being a whiny grouch is good, but that sugarcoating things is not a healthy way to look at the world. Sometimes life sucks. Sometimes shitty things happen. Sometimes people are assholes. Take away the ability to credibly discuss those things as negative, and you take…
> Take away the ability to credibly discuss those things as negative, and you take away the ability to comprehend and solve some very real problems. I think it follows that you also take away the ability to honestly reflect upon and comprehend one's own behavior. For this reason I've come to the belief that the trend to encourage people to "never regret" limits self-growth and even limits empathy[1]. Maybe it's the l…
How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
51–60 of 63 posts
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It was hard to be there because the highest ideals were positivity and productivity It's interesting how language/vocabulary changed as well. "I'm upset because I wasn't productive today". When did people get told that their lot in life was to be productive. And who told them to think or talk like that? How did people start to view themselves as machines whose worth is measured by production? Also, where did the "m…
We've been moralizing work in the US at least my whole life.
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#53This is just not the direction I would have gone to explain why we're all so self absorbed. I wouldn't think the focus on kids having self esteem would affect very much at all. The way I look at it, we're social creatures, meant to live in tribes in close contact with our people. But capitalism and technology keep us isolated and in competition with each other. We live in houses with yards and fences and don't talk t…
The traditional society would have you live among your relatives. Which can be great if your relatives are great, and can be horrible if your relatives are horrible.
The modern society allows you to choose the place where you live freely... at least in theory. In practice, I think if you would ask most people how far they live from their best friends, and how far they would prefer to live from their best friends, those would be two very different numbers. So somehow the relative freedom is big enough to break extended families apart, but not big enough to bring best friends together. So instead of trading relatives for friends, we are trading relatives mostly for loneliness.
There are reasons why this happens. Buying a new house is expensive, and moving to the new house is a lot of work, so you only do it once or twice in your life. The moment when you decide to buy a house, and when you have enough money to do it, is not the same moment when your friend decides to buy a house and has enough money to do it. Despite enjoying the idea of living closer to each other, each of you probably has a strong opinion about the best place to live, and very likely it is not the same place. Etc. Every step in this chain is so logical... and yet, at the end, the outcome is unsatisfactory. Maybe we also suck as predicting what will make us happy in life.
Once I lived in a 10-minute walking distance from my best friend. It was amazing; I never felt so connected socially. Any day, any hour, I could just pick up my phone, ask "hey, would you like to meet now", and if yes, then in 10 minutes I could be with my friend. We talked a lot and played a lot of computer games, heh. It makes a large difference when it is 8PM, and you have to go to work the next day, and still you can insert an hour or two of human interaction if you need it.
These days my best friends live between 30 minutes and 2 hours away from me. It absolutely does not have the same dynamic. Visiting them is something that needs to be planned; for the more distant ones it is something that takes the whole day (2 hours there, 2 hours back, and we better spend a few hours together otherwise it was more traveling than socializing). I can no longer just do it spontaneously at the end of the working day. I need a large time interval, they need a large time intervals, and we have to coordinate these time intervals. So at the end, we meet more rarely than we would prefer to.
Now imagine the opposite situation, if somehow magically we could just live downstairs from each other, or across the street. We could meet anytime. Even anytime we go with kids to the playground, we could meet and talk there.
In theory, there is nothing preventing me and my best friends to coordinate and buy houses in the same city, on the same street. But in practice, almost no one does this. It would take money and time, you would have to sacrifice some of your preferences, you are not sure that the same people will be your best friends 10 years later, you do not want to move every 10 years to follow your new friendships, your best friends are not the same people as your partner's best friends, etc.
So we keep dreaming about something that feels like the right thing, but most likely we will never have it.
I wonder how much the society would be different if houses were like Lego bricks, and you could anytime relatively cheaply move your house from place A to place B (and if you change your mind later, move it back). Whenever you feel alone, if there is at least one person you would prefer to be with, move closer to them.
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s wrong with failure being your own fault? The only thing I ever take away from failure is a lesson on how to fail less next time. Finding other things or people to blame failure on is just a barrier to personal growth.
If failure is your own fault, then logically success must be your own making. But that of course misses out on a huge chunk of understanding. I have been pretty successful compared with many people I grew up with - sure, I worked hard for that, but I also had the benefit of good parents, enough money, no discrimination, free education, and so on. It’s easy to forget that a kid from a less supportive background has to…
It’s the greatest factor of all. I grew up dirt poor with a drug addicted mother. Could you tell me how I could have possibly derived any benefit from blaming life for dealing me a bad hand? My point stands, the only thing I can do to move my life forward is focus on the things I can control. I can’t control how unfair the world is, but I can control what I take away from failure. This concept of privilege is used it such a messed up way. It doesn’t matter where you start out, the only thing you can do to make your life better is take responsibility for yourself. Your argument seems to boil down saying that if you have to try to hard you may as well just not bother because it’s not your fault.
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a marked ... level of association, at the very least, between major parts of the conservative and Rothbardian/Randian Libertarian movements, and straight-up fascist action or ideology. The Daily Beast had an excellent article on this in August, 2017: http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-insidious-libertarian-to-al... Also The New Yorker , "Are Bosses Dictators? | The New Yorker": https://www.newyorker.com/books/p…
Apologies for the long reply in advance. Due to a shortage of time (don't we all wish for more of it?), I'll summarize and address the first article you linked to. Paragraph 1: Alt-right figure A identifies as libertarian. Alt-right figure B identifies as a former libertarian. Paragraph 2: Alt-right figures C and D identify as libertarian. Alt-right figure E kicked out of libertarian conference. This last example see…
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which parodies?
"This is a short story about the rise of the Collageumentary, And how the medium swamped the message" The Loving Trap https://youtu.be/x1bX3F7uTrg
https://youtube.com/results?search_query=adam+curtis+parody
Corbett Report offers a good, longish (45m) take, non-parody:
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
If failure is your own fault, then logically success must be your own making. But that of course misses out on a huge chunk of understanding. I have been pretty successful compared with many people I grew up with - sure, I worked hard for that, but I also had the benefit of good parents, enough money, no discrimination, free education, and so on. It’s easy to forget that a kid from a less supportive background has to…
>Personal effort obviously contributes to success and failure. But it’s totally obvious that it’s not the only factor. It’s the greatest factor of all. I grew up dirt poor with a drug addicted mother. Could you tell me how I could have possibly derived any benefit from blaming life for dealing me a bad hand? My point stands, the only thing I can do to move my life forward is focus on the things I can control. I can’t…
It's rational and correct to tackle underlying causes of inequality. You're correct that the only thing that can be done is to deal with the situation you find yourself it; you're wrong that you "can’t control how unfair the world is". The world will remain unfair unless we all try to fix that situation – and drawing attention to is one of the steps required.
Everybody has responsibility for themselves. But that's not an excuse to shut people down for complaining about inequality.
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Personal effort obviously contributes to success and failure. But it’s totally obvious that it’s not the only factor. It’s the greatest factor of all. I grew up dirt poor with a drug addicted mother. Could you tell me how I could have possibly derived any benefit from blaming life for dealing me a bad hand? My point stands, the only thing I can do to move my life forward is focus on the things I can control. I can’t…
Sorry, you've misinterpreted this. It's rational and correct to tackle underlying causes of inequality. You're correct that the only thing that can be done is to deal with the situation you find yourself it; you're wrong that you "can’t control how unfair the world is". The world will remain unfair unless we all try to fix that situation – and drawing attention to is one of the steps required. Everybody has responsib…
We're born unequal. We're all born with different levels of physical and mental ability. We're also all born in different circumstances. This is simply the natural state of the world. Advocating for people to wallow in despair over this fact is far more harmful than beneficial. As I said, the only thing you can do to make a better life for yourself is to take responsibility for your life.
The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Allowing people to compete on equal terms. Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well. At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor, or because my mother was (and still is) a drug addict. I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them.
Everything else you can't 'fix'. I guess if you wanted to destroy society you could enforce equal circumstances for everybody. You could tax income at 100%, and redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities.
The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you.
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, you've misinterpreted this. It's rational and correct to tackle underlying causes of inequality. You're correct that the only thing that can be done is to deal with the situation you find yourself it; you're wrong that you "can’t control how unfair the world is". The world will remain unfair unless we all try to fix that situation – and drawing attention to is one of the steps required. Everybody has responsib…
You've misinterpreted what equality actually is. We're born unequal. We're all born with different levels of physical and mental ability. We're also all born in different circumstances. This is simply the natural state of the world. Advocating for people to wallow in despair over this fact is far more harmful than beneficial. As I said, the only thing you can do to make a better life for yourself is to take responsib…
Like I said, it is down to each individual to make the best with what they have. I don't advocate anybody "wallowing in despair", but I do fully support objecting to structural inequality that denies people the opportunity to compete fairly.
The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity.
Obviously.
Although we could improve on this point, we actually already do it pretty well.
We do it shockingly badly by almost every metric.
At no time in my life have I ever been denied an opportunity because I grew up poor
I have no reason to think you don't believe that, but it's almost certainly not true. It's completely obvious that this is the case. If you grow up poor, it is harder to access better education, better nutrition, better medical care. These subsequently have an effect on which opportunities one can take advantage of.
I have found many opportunities to improve my life, and I have taken advantage of many of them.
That's awesome! It's the only way to improve one's own outcome. It doesn't invalidate the fact that those opportunities are harder to come by for people of some backgrounds.
redistribute all resources perfectly equally between all members of society, but people would still be born with their own set of natural talents and abilities.
We don't require complete redistribution nor absolute equality of circumstances in order to improve the situation. We can make sure that there are well-funded public schools, so that children from poor backgrounds can receive high-quality education. We can provide welfare systems and education programs so that kids have access to quality nutrition. We can provide universal medical care. We can try to eliminate structural racism or homophobia. There are all good things that are worth arguing for.
The message that "it's not your fault, it's inequality's fault" is so incredibly destructive and dangerous. The only person responsible for getting your life to where you want it to be is you.
Far more dangerous, in my opinion, is the view that unequal circumstances are unavoidable and the best thing to do is to "put up or shut up", as it were. I do not claim that anybody other than yourself is responsible for your own life, but I totally disagree that we should pretend inequality doesn't exist, or that we shouldn't bother fighting it. It's not an excuse for failure, but it's also something that very obviously makes it more likely.
There's a comic I quite like that illustrates this: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
Re: How We Got to Be So Self-Absorbed: The Long Story
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've misinterpreted what equality actually is. We're born unequal. We're all born with different levels of physical and mental ability. We're also all born in different circumstances. This is simply the natural state of the world. Advocating for people to wallow in despair over this fact is far more harmful than beneficial. As I said, the only thing you can do to make a better life for yourself is to take responsib…
I'm sorry again, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Like I said, it is down to each individual to make the best with what they have. I don't advocate anybody "wallowing in despair", but I do fully support objecting to structural inequality that denies people the opportunity to compete fairly. The only equality we can strive to achieve is equality of opportunity. Obviously. Although we could improve on this point,…
I have never in my life been denied an opportunity because of my background. No school ever considered my background before admitting me. No employer ever considered my upbringing before offering me a job.
Again, unless you forcefully redistribute all material resources evenly (which as I’ve already said, doesn’t at all take into account natural endowments), then you’re never going to have everybody existing in an equal set of circumstances.
Inequality of outcomes will always and should always exist. In fact it’s not fair for inequality of outcomes to not exist, as people will never all produce equal value to society.
Furthermore, I went to a well funded public school. It was full of delinquents, but I made the most of my education, which has since served me very well. This was only possible because I took responsibility for myself, which no matter how much you deny it, is exactly what you are advocating against. I don’t know where you’re from, but I live in a society that provides equal protection under the law, and doesn’t allow people to discriminate based upon socioeconomic status. Sure, wealthy people will be able to invest more money into developing themselves, but I have been granted the opportunity to compete with those people on equal terms all my life, and I’ve more often than not come out ahead.
You haven’t substantiated your argument that equality of opportunity doesn’t exist in any way, and you continue to advocate for people to focus on the unfairness of their circumstances, rather than what they can do about it. In life all you can do is play the cards your dealt, shaking your fist at the sky will get you exactly nowhere.