Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you trust people in business more than people in government?
Why not?
I was hoping for more than just an arbitrary reason, but how much can one really expect from a throwaway account?
Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
241–250 of 251 posts
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 1. A single state is not representative of the entire country Yes that's why I said hundreds of thousands of kids are being negatively impacted and not millions of kids. > All of this to say that your kid getting slightly less time in K-6 education You mean an incredibly sub-par education for kids key formative years! Why do you seek to downplay the issue? Why not seek to solve the issue - perhaps in other ways? >…
So no comment on that 30% of income spent for public schools? > You mean an incredibly sub-par education for kids key formative years! This just sounds like scapegoating. I think the subpar education of public schools is not caused by immigration. Public schooling needs massive changes, immigration or not. > It's an easy justification to make - you just don't care because you aren't personally impacted. No, I'm carin…
> I think the subpar education of public schools is not caused by immigration.
How can you confidently say that?
All the evidence points to it being a key problem.
> And I value severity over quantity generally when it comes to moral issues.
How do you judge severity?
You seem to be using your feelings as the barometer. Reality is not so simple.
We know that a poor education significantly increases the likelihood you will get involved in crime, go to prison, live in poverty, etc.
So what do you think will happen when you screw up the education of hundreds of thousands of kids?
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think both governments and corporations can be a good thing > Governments will always do evil. > they are by nature evil. Please either make up your mind or use less misleading language in the future. You made a strong, controversial assertion, which then turned out to be a pretty mundane belief upon challenge.
Well, I think the wrong people will search power. Always. That means that governments, by nature, will be evil. They will always to some degree do evil. However, if the people abusing their powers (by evil intent, neglect or pure stupidity) are held accountable, and removed, may be the governments can become something I can live with, even mostly good. Today, I think the balance is very much that the governments are…
> Well, I think the wrong people will search power. Always. That means that governments, by nature, will be evil. They will always to some degree do evil.
Sure, but this is trivially true. Individuals will always to some degree do evil. Corporations will always to some degree do evil. Religions will always to some degree do evil. There are no possible groupings of humans that will not to some degree do evil.
> Today, I think the balance is very much that the governments are on the dark side.
An interesting observation, considering the proportion of (functional) democracies is higher than it has ever been. At what point in history were governments not on the "dark side"?
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Am I the only one who appreciates the difficult situation that ICE is put in here? They're tasked with enforcing U.S. immigration law which, like any immigration law implies that only certain people are allowed to enter the country under certain circumstances. No matter what they do, they're going to be stuck dealing with otherwise decent people who are knowingly violating immigration law. I see a lot of people compl…
Here's a solution: go back to the policy under Bush or Obama. Immigration policy is rarely pleasant, and we may have different views on hard choices, but I hope we can agree when a policy is evil.
Didn't this start under Obama, though?
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Under federal law, which adopts the United Nations definition, torture is: “any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as … punishing him or her for an act he or she or a third person … has committed or is suspected of having committed.” And though in theory any action inflicting such suffering is banned, that is what is inflicted…
If being separated from your parents is torture, then what about the prison system?
The U.S. prison system is widely condemned as inhumane, overcrowded, and violent. So yeah, I would say that's torture, too.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a solution: go back to the policy under Bush or Obama. Immigration policy is rarely pleasant, and we may have different views on hard choices, but I hope we can agree when a policy is evil.
Didn't this start under Obama, though?
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
So no comment on that 30% of income spent for public schools? > You mean an incredibly sub-par education for kids key formative years! This just sounds like scapegoating. I think the subpar education of public schools is not caused by immigration. Public schooling needs massive changes, immigration or not. > It's an easy justification to make - you just don't care because you aren't personally impacted. No, I'm carin…
> I think the subpar education of public schools is not caused by immigration. How can you confidently say that? All the evidence points to it being a key problem. > And I value severity over quantity generally when it comes to moral issues. How do you judge severity? You seem to be using your feelings as the barometer. Reality is not so simple. We know that a poor education significantly increases the likelihood you…
> How can you confidently say that?
All of the studies on poor/insufficient teacher pay, the funneling of money away from public K-12 schools, the personal experiences of many around me, some from California public schools, broken incentives from pushes for standardized testing from administrations the past two decades. The list goes on. And now you're going to say that immigration is anything significant compared to all of that?
> All the evidence points to it being a key problem.
All the evidence I have been asking for and you have not given?
> You seem to be using your feelings as the barometer. Reality is not so simple.
I'm sorry but having empathy for others is not judging severity on feelings.
> We know that a poor education significantly increases the likelihood you will get involved in crime, go to prison, live in poverty, etc.
Yes, having non-native English speakers in your school will cause your life to be ruined. Of course. Again, we're going to have to disagree on the effects here. This isn't going anywhere. The retreat to "you're bringing feelings into this" says a lot.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think the subpar education of public schools is not caused by immigration. How can you confidently say that? All the evidence points to it being a key problem. > And I value severity over quantity generally when it comes to moral issues. How do you judge severity? You seem to be using your feelings as the barometer. Reality is not so simple. We know that a poor education significantly increases the likelihood you…
> How can you confidently say that? All of the studies on poor/insufficient teacher pay, the funneling of money away from public K-12 schools, the personal experiences of many around me, some from California public schools, broken incentives from pushes for standardized testing from administrations the past two decades. The list goes on. And now you're going to say that immigration is anything significant compared to…
> The list goes on
Every item you listed applies to states doing a lot better on the education front than California.
> All the evidence I have been asking for and you have not given?
What evidence will convince you that a high proportion of non-English speakers likely has a serious influence on educational outcomes for a school?
Would a strong negative correlation between number of non-English speakers at a school and school performance convince you?
And then once you have been convinced what will convince you that the most just and moral approach is strict border security?
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Corporations are no less evil than governments. If anything, they may be more evil, as they are motivated solely by profit and have no particular reason to care about the population at large. Why single out governments?
> Corporations are no less evil than governments. If anything, they may be more evil, as they are motivated solely by profit and have no particular reason to care about the population at large. Corporations are accountable. They are accountable as entities, and as individuals (owners, managers, employees). If they do fatal decisions, the corporation may go bankrupt. If people act immoral, they may get fired. If they…
> Corporations are accountable.
To shareholders, who are motivated by profit. Accountability is worse than useless if it holds you to account for the wrong things.
Governments are accountable to their populations, at least in democracies.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haven’t seen anyone non-ironically use M$FT in like 20 years. It on the same fringe scale as wiring “First!” on a comment section.
By all means they should keep typing the "$" so I can more quickly skip over their post as someone who hasn't changed their worldview since the 90s, and someone who is susceptible to memetic bandwagonning.
Have you used Azure? They're the same company, just a new product line.