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Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

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Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#201

Post by refoundglory »

cr1895 wrote: post #192
refoundglory wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flores does not mandate that a) every arrival be prosecuted instead of just deported (or even any arrival) b) Trump end community detention programs for immigrant families, which were very successful and far cheaper than prison under Obama So no, there are no laws mandating this. People like you are choosing to do it because they think it will deter people from arriving here. That's not a legal mandate, it's a moral…

>People like you are choosing to do it because they think it will deter people from arriving here. Immoral and repugnant as it is, it does appear to be working this way. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/world/americas/mexico-fam...

Yes, but it would also work if ICE just killed them on arrival.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#202

Post by commandlinefan »

jgaa wrote: post #45

Governments will always do evil. Not to everyone, all of the time - but they are by nature evil. When I wrote the War FTP Daemon in 1996, as freeware, this became a problem to me. I did want to give away my work for free, but I did not want any government agency to abuse it. So I came up with a solution - a GPL license with an additional clause - that the government - any government - could not use it for any purpose…

> SOFTWARE OR SORCE CODE

you have a typo in your copyright.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#203

Post by sctb »

star-castle wrote: post #32
zasz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people are asylum seekers. What they are doing is literally not illegal. According to USCIS, asylum seekers must be physically present in the US to apply: To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitar…

> Nice of you to pretend to care. Every few weeks a focus group comes up with a mantra or slogan and the media blasts it like it's the new Justin Beiber track. The current mantra is "SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS", which you're not supposed to think too deeply about (is it inherently a bad thing? Not if we like CPS. Not if 'asylum seekers' are known to be kidnapping other people's children so that they can accompa…

We just asked you to please comment according to the guidelines, which you've been breaking left-right-and-center, so we've banned the account. We're happy to unban accounts if you email hn@ycombinator.com and we believe you'll start posting civilly and thoughtfully.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#204

Post by wilsonnb2 »

briandear wrote: post #52

Weird, employees had nothing to say in 2014 when these images were published: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/06/18/photos-ob... Kids were being separated then and being housed in the exact same facilities being used now. Interestingly, this story “breaks” the exact same week the FBI inspector general’s report was released. I am not judging the wrongness or rightness of what is and has happened in terms…

Calling the report damning is quite the exaggeration. The IG concluded that Strzok and Page created the appearance of bias with their texts, but also says that he found no evidence that they acted on the apparent bias. He does think that their bias hurts the credibility of the FBI, though.

The only other issue the IG had was with Comey's public statements about the Clinton emails investigation. Even there he concludes that Comey wasn't acting out of political bias, and instead just somewhat mishandled an extremely unusual case.

I would hardly call those conclusions damning.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#205

Post by jgaa »

askawayok wrote: post #181
jgaa wrote: post #45

Governments will always do evil. Not to everyone, all of the time - but they are by nature evil. When I wrote the War FTP Daemon in 1996, as freeware, this became a problem to me. I did want to give away my work for free, but I did not want any government agency to abuse it. So I came up with a solution - a GPL license with an additional clause - that the government - any government - could not use it for any purpose…

Curious, why doesn’t your license also exclude regular companies? Many of them act as if they are above the law and destroy the environment while ignoring human rights. Are you ok with them using your software?

Actually, I prefer that only red-haired grandmothers with a life-long track-record of being nice, who enjoys Star Wars and Harry Potter, and have at least two pet dogs, to use my software.

However, making such narrow closes would be impractical and stupid. When I faced this dilemma, I was suffering severely from post traumatic stress - caused by abuse from the Norwegian government. The thought of giving my work to them - to any government - was literally painful. Therefore, I put in a clause to block out the bigger evil. Not for anyone who has ever beaten a puppy or pissed on a grave, or who happens to have the Wrong Religion or sexual orientation.

When it comes to immoral corporations - I vote with my money. And of course - I don't work there.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#206

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

mad_tortoise wrote: post #147
m_fayer wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are what happen when a group of people live in a community too large and complicated to be governed by an ad-hoc group of elders talking it out. Governments are what happen when humans want to trade in an organized fashion. Governments are what happen when people don't want to be in a constant state of conflict, inter and intra group. Governments are what happen if your community wants to live by the rule…

Government is only inevitable, only if you believe in these sets of prerequisites for constructing a government. These all can be managed without government should the people want it. It's called anarchy, not the neo-modern destructive type, but the real ideology actually sets this out very well, that government is not needed. It is to everyone's own opinion whether or not you need government and what each of us want…

Anarchy can only exist until someone does something bad enough that other people ban together to stop them. This tends to happen quite quickly under anarchy, thus forming governments (even if they are just local militia enforcing their will as despots).

Governments can only not exist when the population density is so low that people only interact when they want to and can cease interaction when they so desire. This is extremely low population density, and given the increased range technology gives us, there are very few places that have this low of a density, and even then it only lasts as long as the density doesn't increase due to some migration event.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#207

Post by int_19h »

ionised wrote: post #150
int_19h wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time three or more humans interact, it's politics.

It's not though, is it?

We are conditioned in many ways to think of the myriads of unwritten rules and customs that surround our day-to-day interaction as natural and obvious. But they are a product of our society and its culture, and a very political product at that - they are what makes abstract hierarchies of power in that society concrete. It manifests even in very simple things, like how you address others (think about things like the T-V distinction, or, in some languages, how different names the person has can be used in different combinations to claim or defer to authority).

When you have more than one person, and they interact with each other, they need to deal with things like authority, rules, fairness etc - all of which are political. The reason why I wrote "three" is because it's the minimum at which you can have the majority forcing some authority or rules on the unwilling minority, which is when that politics becomes explicit.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#208

Post by joeframbach »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #154
huffmsa wrote: post #149

They do know that if M$FT cancels, the contract will just go to someone with zero scruples about this, right? It's better to keep things you dislike close so you can keep an eye on them than to pretend like they don't exist.

Haven’t seen anyone non-ironically use M$FT in like 20 years. It on the same fringe scale as wiring “First!” on a comment section.

By all means they should keep typing the "$" so I can more quickly skip over their post as someone who hasn't changed their worldview since the 90s, and someone who is susceptible to memetic bandwagonning.

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#209

Post by commandlinefan »

allenz wrote: post #77
ggg9990 wrote: post #48

I just don't think we're tracking towards a healthy world where your email vendor pulls the plug on your contract because of your activities. I don't think any business should be allowed to deny their offering to any paying customer. Edit: Does that mean I have to sell lumber to the KKK even though they will likely burn a cross with it? Yes, unless they explicitly say they're going to. Leave those policing problems t…

When ICE violates human rights, it's no longer a free speech issue. Microsoft shouldn't work with ICE in the same way that banks shouldn't work with sanctioned oligarchs.

Am I the only one who appreciates the difficult situation that ICE is put in here? They're tasked with enforcing U.S. immigration law which, like any immigration law implies that only certain people are allowed to enter the country under certain circumstances. No matter what they do, they're going to be stuck dealing with otherwise decent people who are knowingly violating immigration law. I see a lot of people complaining, in the most hyperbolic way, but I'm not seeing anybody suggesting any solutions other than "let anybody come who wants to come" (which might actually be workable, but a lot of other things would have to change at the same time).

Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract

#210

Post by true_religion »

deegles wrote: post #190
weiming wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like we are treating these children well (and I'm glad): "he seemed cheerful, “He shared how he was learning English, playing games and being well treated,” Ms. Ortiz said." [1] However, I was appalled by the horrible "children in cages" photo taken during the Obama era. How was this allowed to happen? Wish I/we all had known about this, back then. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/us/immigration-deport…

> Under federal law, which adopts the United Nations definition, torture is: “any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as … punishing him or her for an act he or she or a third person … has committed or is suspected of having committed.” And though in theory any action inflicting such suffering is banned, that is what is inflicted…

If being separated from your parents is torture, then what about the prison system?
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