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Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

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Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#511

Just dropping a note in support of Firefox ... It's a great browser and I've came back to it even before the changes in Quantum, because the UI is better and it's also a browser I can trust to protect my interests. Just one thing to consider ... recently in Chrome 66 they introduced the means for cosmetic ads blocking via stylesheets that can no longer be overridden, as Google finally succumbed to demands for it. Fir…

> Firefox is leading the offense against privacy invading web services (although granted Apple's Safari doesn't do a bad job either).

I thought Safari was leading the charge, so I did a little digging. I haven’t reached a conclusion yet but found out about Firefox’s Tracking Protection[1]. Any idea how it compares to uBlock Origin? If you’re the kind of person that’d rather use as few extensions as possible, would using Firefox’s TP with a solid list be as effective as using uBlock Origin with the same list?

[1]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tracking-protection

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#512

Most of the comments here are about using or not using Firefox, depending on it's features as compared to primarily Chrome. However, for me, it is not about being better or having more features at all - it is because I like Firefox and want to support Mozilla and believe that Google should not control the web. It is somewhat similar to the free software vs. open source debate - one should use free software not becaus…

A lot of people forget that the only browser used by most everyone was IE and that was stagnant and smelly as they come. Firefox nudged the web forward when it was introduced, and made quite a splash on its own by capturing about a fourth to a third of usage from IE, but a small company can't fend itself from Microsoft. It took Google and Chrome, later, to knock IE and Microsoft into its place with its big push forwa…

> Google's leadership has done far more good for the web and we should be grateful

Only time will tell.

Personally I'm not that grateful to Google. Like you said, it all started out as a good thing - rather innocent. And of course it turned to "profit at all cost" soon after that.

IMHO most people not quite understand the trade-offs involving technology choice. Large companies like Google, Microsoft, Apple (in no particular order) take advantage of that in the interest of their stakeholders. Violating their user's freedom and privacy along the way.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#513
Nice.

There are still many things to be fixed on the internet, though:

- social media

- trust networks, moderation, reviewing, discovery

- openness of OSes/devices, native programming frameworks

- open implementations of ML/AI applications such as speech recognition/synthesis, NLP, web search

- decentralization of services, like IPFS

Any chance Mozilla will be working on these problems or funding research/development?

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#514
post #478

Most of the comments here are about using or not using Firefox, depending on it's features as compared to primarily Chrome. However, for me, it is not about being better or having more features at all - it is because I like Firefox and want to support Mozilla and believe that Google should not control the web. It is somewhat similar to the free software vs. open source debate - one should use free software not becaus…

> website which is "best viewed with Chrome" I'm stunned. Is this still a thing? Last time I remember seeing websites recommending a browser, it was late 90s with "get Netscape" gifs.

Yep. You can't use google hangouts without chrome. I've seen other websites (non-google) doing the same. Chrome is the new IE it seems :(

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, performance-wise I can't complain :) I'm a compulsive tab hoarder with about 400 open (admittedly, have to enable the "don't load until focused"-setting) on a 5 yo laptop with lots of other stuff running. No problem at all.

I am genuinely interested: why so many and how can you handle 400 open tabs?? How do you navigate between them? I am lost as soon as I have more than 10 tabs open at the same time...

Oh, that's not hard. First, Firefox doesn't squeeze tabs past certain limit, so you don't have these tiny-tiny tabs that you can't click. You get the scrolling, but it won't bother you after a while. Thus, visually even with 1000 or 2000 tabs browser UI stays clean.

Second, when you type stuff into the address bar Firefox searches through opened tabs and suggests switching to that. This minimizes the number of times you'd open a new tab.

Third, there are many addons that help you organize your tabs. There are ways to search for tab content, group them into containers, find duplicates, etc.

How to start having many tabs open? Just change your MO when you use the browser. Want to search for something? Hit new tab and go. Researching something? Open every link you find somewhat promising in a new tab. When you have 200+ tabs opened, another 8-12 won't be a big change. Done with your research? Why close tabs? Just keep them open in case you'll need them later.

Often when I work on a project for, say, half a year I don't close tabs at all, and keep getting back to stuff I accidentally stumbled upon 2-3 months ago. It's very helpful at times to be able to dig stuff up one tab away. One could argue that bookmarks and history could be as helpful, but in practice when you switch to an old tab you see the context around it. What else I was looking at at that time, often information in the neighboring tabs is relevant, yet bookmarks and browser history don't have a good UI to surface it if front of you.

Yes, your browser becomes a memory hog, but as people noticed Firefox has means to compensate that. At 200+ tabs it consumes significantly less memory than Chrome (even with Chrome's load on demand turned on).

It takes time to get used to, and ones or twice a year you'd be doing tab cleaning, but I've being using browsers like this for 15+ years and really see benefits in this workflow.

For context: right now I have 330 tabs opened, Firefox consumes 1.8 GiB of RAM

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without them stock FF is quite shite and unusable Pardon ? Actually FF is better that Chrome!

Without extensions all web browsers are quite equally unusable. Long gone are the days of Opera presto when browsers shipped fully featured.

IMO Firefox is much better without extensions than most browsers with extensions. Chrome (chromium) being the one exception I know of.

Then I find Firefox better than Chrome when both run with or without extensions.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#517
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply an incorrect statement. Firefox did not become irrelevant. I'm not sure where the author is coming from with his remarks, but obviously he lived in a Google Chrome bubble for a long time.

Have a look at the trends[0] and tell me it does not show a descent to darkness. 1. Firefox was at ~30% market share at its apex (it's now half that) 2. It got surpassed by a newcomer with no previous experience in browser making in less than 3 years 3. And the newcomer was so much better at technical stuff and marketing that it not only kept superseding Firefox but it kept growing uninterrupted ever since 3. Meanwhi…

"Irrelevant" is a strong, dismissive word that comes with a certain arrogance that I don't think fits the facts at all in this case.

The author said FF became irrelevant after 2008, which is false. It was popular for a long time after.

The answer to the question "how popular is a browser" should not be answered by anything other than stats for your own sites. Global stats don't interest me.

While Chrome certainly did rise in popularity and overtake FF, it was absolutely not in 2008 that happened according to the browser stats of the network of mainstream popular sites I worked on for a few years at that time. I do remember seeing a discrepancy in the "global stats" vs the actual stats from Google analytics I was accessing on a regular basis, which told a different story.

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is still king when it comes to fast JS execution and modern technologies. I'm talking about real world use, I know some benchmarks put FF and Edge ahead. The recent post about real time pose estimation was a pretty example of that - pretty unusable in FF, runs great in Chrome (on Windows at least) https://storage.googleapis.com/tfjs-models/demos/posenet/cam... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17283525

I've been using FF again since 57 came out. The only real world pages that sometimes crawl to a halt on FF are some Google pages like the old Gmail and Youtube.

Pretty much any page with paralax scrolling or great ammount of images - and you can barely scroll the page. It's gets better with 62, but Fx still struggles with pages like https://www.hellomonday.com/

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#519
> And both support uBlock Origin, the ad blocker recommended by many security experts.

Finally a big media outlet with the right advice, the only extension you need is uBO. And a wrong one - using 1Password [0]. KeepassXC is safer, but hey, baby steps, right? :))

Chrome is snitching to Google, IE is Windows I stopped using, Safari is best, if you're rich :) Other browsers are too rare - easy for fingerprinting.

[0] www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/flaws_in_password_management_apps

Re: Firefox is back. It's time to give it a try

#520
post #484
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> website which is "best viewed with Chrome" I'm stunned. Is this still a thing? Last time I remember seeing websites recommending a browser, it was late 90s with "get Netscape" gifs.

Not only is it still a thing, Google itself is a major culprit of it. Seems like every new experiment they release is “best viewed” in — or worse, “requires” — Google Chrome.

Not just experiments. Neither Google Hangouts nor Meet worked in Firefox until the 22nd of May this year.
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