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Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#241

Post by jkmatila »

rlpb wrote: post #172
jrockway wrote: post #112

I don't use Facebook. Incidentally, I adblocked "facebook.com" the other day, and a lot of sites load much faster now. In three days, the rule has been hit over 1300 times! If I had a Facebook account, this would scare me.

I use Facebook, so blocking it won't work for me. But I don't want other sites to be able to "cross-domain" Facebook, since that gives Facebook more information that I'd like. A way to block only "cross-domain" type Facebook access would be nice. Or perhaps a per-tab private browsing mode.

I think the following Adblock Plus filter rule would do the trick:

  ||facebook.com^$third-party

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#242

Post by patd »

jasonkester wrote: post #239
patd wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just put a delegate on a web page URL you'll remember. Like on your personal website. I use my own page and use the OpenId delegate meta-tag to point to the domain that I also don't remember: http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-1_1.html#deleg... This way you only have to remember your own URL like: http://openid.mydomain.com and the password that you've chosen.

Is that actually a serious suggestion? Is that what you'd tell your non-technical users when they asked you what an openid was? Sentences that start with the word "just" should describe something easy to do. Like, you know, using your existing email address as your unique ID.

That's not the suggestion I give to non-technical users, that's the suggestion that I give to you that took the time to learn what OpenId is but complains about it.

What I tell website developers is to add a login with Google, Yahoo, ... + OpenId (Google and Yahoo are openId providers) and each will redirect users to the correct OpenId endpoint (the one from yahoo, the one from google or your own).

And I don't say anything to non-technical users. They will see a "login with Yahoo" or "login with Facebook" or "login with Gmail" and they won't even ask me questions about OpenID. The ones that know what OpenId is and have their own custom URL will use it. Others will use the endpoints provided by Yahoo or Google and won't know what OpenID is and they don't need to.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#243

Post by jasonkester »

patd wrote: post #242
jasonkester wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually a serious suggestion? Is that what you'd tell your non-technical users when they asked you what an openid was? Sentences that start with the word "just" should describe something easy to do. Like, you know, using your existing email address as your unique ID.

That's not the suggestion I give to non-technical users, that's the suggestion that I give to you that took the time to learn what OpenId is but complains about it. What I tell website developers is to add a login with Google, Yahoo, ... + OpenId (Google and Yahoo are openId providers) and each will redirect users to the correct OpenId endpoint (the one from yahoo, the one from google or your own). And I don't say an…

Have you done any testing to see how many users you lose by doing this? There is, after all, a percentage of your users who will see your "login with Yahoo" message and not understand what you mean, then leave when they can't find a way to register.

You seem to think that number would be low. Experience with users & registration leads me to believe that it will be quite high. I personally don't plan to implement openID, so I can't do any testing. I'd be curious to see what your numbers say.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#244

Post by loewenskind »

mvalle wrote: post #157
targz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, in order to know that Quora is good enough to force you to use FB Connect even though you don't want to, you have to use FB Connect... I'm certain this slows their growth.

Or maybe it makes sure that the only people who go the length to sign up are aware of the benefit of Quora, and therefore likely to be quality users contributing the the quality of Quora. In a sense, Quora uses Facebook as a filter to get great users.

Yea, because Facebook is the test if someone is a great user or not.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#245

Post by loewenskind »

gallerytungsten wrote: post #216
mquander wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm comfortable with separate identities per site, but it is impractical for most people. You have three general choices: - Maintain a separate login and password for every site. This requires a lot of memorization and is a pain in the ass when you find yourself trying four passwords because you forgot which you used. - Use password management software or a naming system that lets you keep track. This is effective bu…

Option 4: use an address book, spreadsheet, or database to list passwords.

wtf? You know browsers can just remember this stuff these days, right? Or if you log in from multiple places and don't want to export your browser passwords then you can use e.g. Password1

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#246

Post by loewenskind »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #118
scott_s wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it always do that? Are there any implicit allowances? Will there be in the future? For what's true now, I could look it up. But I'd rather not. For what will be in the future, I have no idea. The simplest thing for me to do is use my Facebook account for Facebook only.

Exactly. This is the reason that I am far more comfortable using my Google or Yahoo OpenID than a Facebook login.

Why? Because these companies are less likely to sell your data to third parties? You know Google has pretty well always read your gmail right?

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#247

Post by kandu »

loewenskind wrote: post #245
gallerytungsten wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 4: use an address book, spreadsheet, or database to list passwords.

wtf? You know browsers can just remember this stuff these days, right? Or if you log in from multiple places and don't want to export your browser passwords then you can use e.g. Password1

If you keep your passwords in the browsers, you expose yourself to trojans that once they get access to your computer will harvest all your passwords from the browser and send them to some overseas hacker.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#248

Post by zumda »

jarek wrote: post #198
generalk wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I start a SaaS business and put "Please login with your OpenIDv2a+OAuth compatible login below." prominently on my front page. And then I have no users because nobody knows what that means.

You should probably put "Please login with your Facebook or Gmail account below" on your front page instead. Modify the services named based on expected clients. Choose one or more from the following: AOL, BBC, Facebook, Google, IBM, MySpace, Orange, PayPal, VeriSign, LiveJournal, Yandex, Ustream and Yahoo!. * On the sign-up page, put in smaller text "You can sign up/log in with any compatible OpenID service" for the…

"Modify the services named based on expected clients. Choose one or more from the following: AOL, BBC, Facebook, Google, IBM, MySpace, Orange, PayPal, VeriSign, LiveJournal, Yandex, Ustream and Yahoo!. "

That's the problem! Most people will look at this and don't know what to do. People hate choice, you generally have to lead them. On the other hand, that you even have to provide such a big list is a flaw in the OpenID spec in my opinion.

Obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but most of the time they don't want to think, they want to use the app.

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#249

Post by tiber »

Make a fake facebook profile. Fill it out as an Austrian Painter, interests include politics, coups and you hang out at the beer hall. Weekend fun includes bonfires and rabblerousing! You enjoy writing books about your struggles.

You'll seem like a fun filled, lovable person. Who could hate you?

Re: Start ups, please don't force me to log in with Facebook

#250

Post by buro9 »

jkmatila wrote: post #241
rlpb wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Facebook, so blocking it won't work for me. But I don't want other sites to be able to "cross-domain" Facebook, since that gives Facebook more information that I'd like. A way to block only "cross-domain" type Facebook access would be nice. Or perhaps a per-tab private browsing mode.

I think the following Adblock Plus filter rule would do the trick: ||facebook.com^$third-party

This is what you want:

||facebook.com^$domain=~facebook.com|~facebook.net|~fbcdn.com|~fbcdn.net

||facebook.net^$domain=~facebook.com|~facebook.net|~fbcdn.com|~fbcdn.net

||fbcdn.com^$domain=~facebook.com|~facebook.net|~fbcdn.com|~fbcdn.net

||fbcdn.net^$domain=~facebook.com|~facebook.net|~fbcdn.com|~fbcdn.net

The key is to allow FB's CDN when on FB, but to disallow it and everything else when not on FB.

I'm never on FB so this takes care of it nicely.

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