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Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#181

Post by smcl »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #115
toomanybeersies wrote: post #73

Meanwhile in Britain, the former leader of the Conservative Party, William Hague, spoke out and claimed that the war on cannabis had been "irreversibly lost". He was quickly shut down by Theresa May, who categorically ruled out legalisation or even decriminalisation [1]. I don't understand how politicians can stand up and claim that legalisation would have substantial negatives, when every experiment with legalisatio…

But would it be the gateway to heavier, and illegal/dangerous, drugs?

I've never been persuaded by the "gateway drug" argument - as if you're destined to seek more exotic or intense highs once you've tried one type of drug. If it were true then a huge amount of UK university students would end up as heroin addicts or something.

The only part of this "slippery slope" argument I can believe works in favour of legalisation. That there's got to be some amount of "well I've tried weed, it is illegal and my experience proves that what I was taught about it in school was a lie - why not try coke/mdma/ghb/etc..". I don't know how common this line of thinking is but it's certainly something that was on my mind a LOT after I was smoking weed in uni.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#182

Post by nerbert »

coldtea wrote: post #156
teekert wrote: post #152

Funny story: I'm from the Netherlands and was 15 and on vacation in France. All the kids smoked weed, which they got in the harbor. They were surprised I never did it because it was legal in the Netherlands, all I could say was that you had to be 18 to get it so I couldn't get it.

> They were surprised I never did it because it was legal in the Netherlands, all I could say was that you had to be 18 to get it so I couldn't get it. I'd guess the age never stopped most of those kids

Something legal is less exciting too.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#183

Post by samatman »

mmt wrote: post #149
foolfoolz wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously we want to restrict access as much as possible to particular drugs, such as heroin or methamphetamine, which are so harmful and addictive that nobody should be using them, or GHB, where the potential for fatal overdose is so high. I dont understand this part. The potential for overdose on alcohol is high as well. I can go buy a plastic handle for $10 and if i drink the whole thing tonight i'll probably di…

> I dont understand this part. The potential for overdose on alcohol is high as well. I think that the point about GHB that most people miss is the concept of therapeutic index, a term borrowed from the medical world (I've also seen it called "safety ratio" in the context of recreational drugs, especially since they're not being used therapeutically). That is, the amount of GHB required to get the desired effect is v…

I assure you, you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

The therapeutic index for GHB is more than adequate, and ketamine is legitimately difficult to kill yourself with, to the point where the deaths I'm aware of were from drowning.

An issue with GHB is that it's distributed in a liquid form that can vary greatly in the amount of water present. When it was available over the counter in the 80s, issues were practically unheard of.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#184

Post by mseebach »

iDemonix wrote: post #165
toomanybeersies wrote: post #73

Meanwhile in Britain, the former leader of the Conservative Party, William Hague, spoke out and claimed that the war on cannabis had been "irreversibly lost". He was quickly shut down by Theresa May, who categorically ruled out legalisation or even decriminalisation [1]. I don't understand how politicians can stand up and claim that legalisation would have substantial negatives, when every experiment with legalisatio…

> He was quickly shut down by Theresa May, who categorically ruled out legalisation or even decriminalisation [1]. Britain is the biggest exporter of Cannabis in the world. The 90-acre farm in the UK is owned by British Sugar, which is owned by the husband of the UK's Drugs Minister (facepalm). Second to that, Theresa May's husband works at a firm that is the largest investor in... you guessed it, British Sugar. Why…

Yeah, well it's either that, or the significantly simpler explanation that involves very simple electoral maths: the tories are going to get exactly 0 voters to cross over on this policy, but tons of core tory voters might stay home on election day.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#185

Post by Jarwain »

Jarwain wrote: post #178
Jarwain wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the opioid crisis differs from what you've implied. Typically, it starts with someone being prescribed opiates. Maybe they use them as prescribed, maybe they don't. If they don't, or they have the kind of genes or psychological issues that make it more likely for them to get hooked, they get hooked. Once they're addicted to the opiate, and discover how much cheaper heroin or fentanyl is on the str…

Because I can't edit my comment using this app: A big contributing factor, I think, is the overprescription of opiates to treat pain when it isn't 100% necessary

I wonder how many overdoses were just suicides

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#186

Post by pjc50 »

bitL wrote: post #160
toomanybeersies wrote: post #73

Meanwhile in Britain, the former leader of the Conservative Party, William Hague, spoke out and claimed that the war on cannabis had been "irreversibly lost". He was quickly shut down by Theresa May, who categorically ruled out legalisation or even decriminalisation [1]. I don't understand how politicians can stand up and claim that legalisation would have substantial negatives, when every experiment with legalisatio…

We already have many problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes, costing taxpayers billions in unnecessary expenses. I get it, people need to escape reality they live in. We know that some weed smokers end up schizophrenic and that in general smoking weed weakens one's will, so in many cases we end up with grown up children going only after the things attainable by easiest efforts. There are also some legit medical us…

> all sexual deviations

We're currently in the middle of the long process of realising that a lot of things that were thought to be harmful or ""degenerate"" actually aren't, and that more harm is done in suppressing them; conversely a whole range of ""normal"" behaviour is non-consensual and actually harmful.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#187

Post by fsloth »

flukus wrote: post #162
zachrose wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug prohibition has been a categorical failure in every outcome it was intended to achieve. The following flavor of comment has been made many times on HN, but since I’m halfway through Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow I’m in the mood for making it again here: The drug war has been “successful”, because its goal was to incarcerate, disenfranchise, extort, terrorize, and break apart the families of minori…

This is a very US centric view but the war on drugs is very international. Cannabis is illegal in most of the world where Americas race relations simply aren't issues, so I really don't buy into this reasoning. This is good old moral superiority at work.

"This is a very US centric view but the war on drugs is very international."

US basically dictates global policies in the block of countries not part of the soviet sphere of influence during the cold war. US defends it's position in the global community using every trick and leverage available. If something is illegal in the US you can be quite assured they will try to apply leverage to make it illegal everywhere else, especially if it's an issue that requires international co-operation - like the war on drugs, for example.

For example, the international banking system is basically controlled by US policies. Parties, that do not co-operate and obey US authorities can and will be shut out of the large pool of global financial services that is critical to running businesses effectively.

Another effect is the pure cultural force US practices have on the "western block" of countries. Lots of ideas (good or bad) are taken into use in other countries after they become fashionable in the US.

You are quite right prudish moral superiority is of course a facet, but that is not the key here, I think.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#188

Post by ssijak »

y4mi wrote: post #137
foolfoolz wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously we want to restrict access as much as possible to particular drugs, such as heroin or methamphetamine, which are so harmful and addictive that nobody should be using them, or GHB, where the potential for fatal overdose is so high. I dont understand this part. The potential for overdose on alcohol is high as well. I can go buy a plastic handle for $10 and if i drink the whole thing tonight i'll probably di…

its way easier to overdose on hard drugs than alcohol. with alcohol, its a slow progress. you keep drinkng and most people pass out / lose their will to drink after they've had enough. hard drugs are generally a single portion and once its in your blood, its too late. you cant say 'hey, i've got enough for today' once you feel it hitting you. You're already doomed if you've chosen the wrong dosage from the start. > T…

I know a person who used Heroin occasionally. He is well and fine, was first officer on some large ship and is now finishing for masters degree which would allow him to work on land related to shipping.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#189

Post by Arnt »

flukus wrote: post #162
zachrose wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug prohibition has been a categorical failure in every outcome it was intended to achieve. The following flavor of comment has been made many times on HN, but since I’m halfway through Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow I’m in the mood for making it again here: The drug war has been “successful”, because its goal was to incarcerate, disenfranchise, extort, terrorize, and break apart the families of minori…

This is a very US centric view but the war on drugs is very international. Cannabis is illegal in most of the world where Americas race relations simply aren't issues, so I really don't buy into this reasoning. This is good old moral superiority at work.

The war on drugs is "very international" if you describe any and every kind of law enforcement as "war".

Cannabis is illegal in many countries, including one where a past minister of justice told a story about how he'd been offered cannabis by another parent at his children's school. The parent who offered was a senior policeman.

That isn't war.

Re: Canada legalises recreational cannabis use

#190

Post by fsloth »

nickik wrote: post #179
maaark wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America started the war, and pushed it on all its allies.

But if it was all about domestic politics then there would have been no reason to to that.

Except fighting drugs requires international co-operation. Once the officials are legally bound to do something, they will start doing their business as effectively as possible, including, perhaps, feeding back the message to the higher ups that they need international co-operation.

The higher ups cannot say "we don't care" because that would immediately politically de-legitimize the drugwar effort.

Hence, all policies, despite their true intent, have all sorts of unnecessary appendices unrelated to the original goal.

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