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Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
31–40 of 251 posts
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#32> I think that what we’re seeing right now with ICE is deeply immoral. It’s a violation of human rights on all kinds of levels. Treating criminals as criminals happens every day in every country and comes with the same consequences - children are separated from their parents. Right now there are tens of thousands of broken black homes as one or two parents are in prison - where's the outrage for them and what about t…
These people are asylum seekers. What they are doing is literally not illegal. According to USCIS, asylum seekers must be physically present in the US to apply: To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitar…
> Nice of you to pretend to care.
Every few weeks a focus group comes up with a mantra or slogan and the media blasts it like it's the new Justin Beiber track. The current mantra is "SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM PARENTS", which you're not supposed to think too deeply about (is it inherently a bad thing? Not if we like CPS. Not if 'asylum seekers' are known to be kidnapping other people's children so that they can accompany a minor into the country. Not if putting adults and children in the same facility is going to lead to horrible abuse.)
You didn't care before this dumb slogan came out, and in a few weeks when the next one comes out (probably something about Russia), you'll stop caring again.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#33As I get older, it's becoming clear how intertwined our morality is with our politics. And how that bleeds into business, sports, religion, etc. It's nice to think of aspects of life that should be free from politics, but in reality that seems hard to achieve.
The relation between politics and tech is the main reason I upvoted this post. I am now more than ever recognize both can either enable or disable each other function smoothly. That is, improving everyone lives.
Edit: down voting this message won't discourage me to say it
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#34It would be nice if the recent instances of employee pressure in Google and Microsoft are early signs of software workers organizing.
It's a sign of nascent change that springs from the grassroots. The only way we'll know for sure is if organizers appear and begin to succeed.
In the context of the child separation policy, some of my colleagues asked what can be done, just giving money didn't seem to be enough. I mentioned a general strike, and they didn't react like it was a crazy idea though unlikely to take hold since this openly fascist policy only affects non-white foreigners. Maybe things are changing though.
Spring forth cadres of the revolution! Your people need your leadership.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN is very guilty as of this. The insistence that HN should never discuss politics is morality reprehensible. The people in this community creates many tools and products that could help or hurt a lot of people. As such, we should readily engage in political discussion so that we fully understand the impact we have.
>we should readily engage in political discussion You must mean political lecturing, because 'discussion' implies more than one side, which means hearing from more than one side, which means not censoring or aggressively punishing voices apart from one side, which means "giving a platform to hate". Where 'hate' is one them magical words that is taken literally and figuratively at the same time, whichever is tacticall…
When you are against something, then obviously you hate it, therefore any argument you present is a hate speech, thus should not be allowed /s
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN is very guilty as of this. The insistence that HN should never discuss politics is morality reprehensible. The people in this community creates many tools and products that could help or hurt a lot of people. As such, we should readily engage in political discussion so that we fully understand the impact we have.
>we should readily engage in political discussion You must mean political lecturing, because 'discussion' implies more than one side, which means hearing from more than one side, which means not censoring or aggressively punishing voices apart from one side, which means "giving a platform to hate". Where 'hate' is one them magical words that is taken literally and figuratively at the same time, whichever is tacticall…
Discussion involves multiple views not multiple sides.
Not every discussion needs to be adversarial or black and white. Discussions can be constructive with all members on the same side talking about ideas .
Most development discussions that happen daily are just that, constructive with people throwing ideas around.
For example if we are discussing the best design pattern in a c++ API , and someone comes in and says "let's rewrite in basic" , when they're shut down, that is not shutting down a discussion, because that is not a constructive view point.
Similarly in politics, not everyone's opinion or view is valid or adds to the discussion. Being dismissed with reason is not the same as being disregarded and barred from discussion. It's simply saying, come back with something that adds to it rather than subtracts.
If you constantly find yourself left out of a discussion maybe consider your approach or your view points. Not every view needs to be considered by others, and either the way it's presented or the view itself may not be worth considering.
As it stands, my opinion is that separating children from their families seeking asylum is morally reprehensible. I'm willing to discuss immigration reform, but I think anyone arguing for the detainment of children is not adding anything of value to the discussion or humanity and is worthy of being disregarded with reason. Just like I would for someone who told me to rewrite a c++ codebase in basic.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
HN is very guilty as of this. The insistence that HN should never discuss politics is morality reprehensible. The people in this community creates many tools and products that could help or hurt a lot of people. As such, we should readily engage in political discussion so that we fully understand the impact we have.
There are many forums for discussing and debating politics. HN can decide not to be one of them; nothing reprehensible about it.
I read this as "HN can decide that technology and morality don't ever come into conflict" and see it as both ridiculous and false.
What else are all the posts about Facebook/Uber/Net Neutrality/Security about? These are primarily moral issues that relate to tech, not tech itself. Most commenters here regularly engage in these conversations, as they should. But not allowing for other conversations to veer into the discussion of politics and morality isn't realistic. We need to be having those conversations more and more as tech becomes a part of the world.
The original post in this thread is 100% correct. You can't just isolate tech.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#38> “Our current engagement with ICE is focused on moving legacy infrastructure such as mail, calendar, messaging and document management to the cloud using Azure.” I don’t understand why this makes it any better. I’m sure there’s a lot of “messaging and document management” needed to run those detainment centers. And besides, what’s going to happen in the future when they do ask to use Cognitive Services in their miss…
Child concentration camps run a lot smoother on Office 365, now on Azure!
EDIT: Anyone that collaborates with ICE from this point forward is complicit. In a just world, collaborators, ICE officers, and high officials would be tried in the International Criminal Court. Following orders or making money was not an acceptable defensible at Nuremberg, nor will it be in the coming future when the US loses enough international standing.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#39As I get older, it's becoming clear how intertwined our morality is with our politics. And how that bleeds into business, sports, religion, etc. It's nice to think of aspects of life that should be free from politics, but in reality that seems hard to achieve.
Is it only becoming more clear or are they actually becoming more intertwined too?
I think both as tech becomes more ubiquitous, but I think the clarity is coming from a lag in perception because of the exact sentiment of "keep politics out of tech". I think a lot of programmers, particularly ones from a generation older than the average tech worker today, got into the field for partially the reason of that separation. It's honestly a great way to live a fulfilling life without having to address the bigger problems in the world personally. That type of ignorance is no longer possible in tech for the most part, but the desire for it still is there for some, in all generations.
Re: Microsoft Employees Pressure Leadership to Cancel ICE Contract
#40As I get older, it's becoming clear how intertwined our morality is with our politics. And how that bleeds into business, sports, religion, etc. It's nice to think of aspects of life that should be free from politics, but in reality that seems hard to achieve.
This situation in particular is more complicated than the media portrays. Separating children from parents is obviously bad, and needs to stop. Zero tolerance for illegal crossings, on the other hand, is probably actually good. The prior policy of letting anyone with children go & handing them a court date heavily incentivized human trafficking of children, because a child was a golden ticket into the USA (and indeed…
The basic problem with that line of thinking is that most don't think immigration is such a large problem that we must have a zero-tolerance policy that does such harm. Immigration is a highly politicized issue that in reality has limited effects. Yes, it's more nuanced than "this is evil", but it's pretty inhumane and overly nationalistic / American-centered if you ask me.