Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#221

Post by jcims » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:24 AM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #216

jcims wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the process look like for authenticating individuals that wish to work for your company? Or maybe more precisely, what would meet the burden of proof for any reasonable regulation around such a thing? This would just drive up the value of stolen identities and make illegal immigrants even more indentured to organized criminals that supply them with such.

Yeah, this is definitely the best counterargument on this point. I do agree that it's very difficult, but it's not like the other alternatives are easy in any way (see the current debacle as exhibit A). If I heard politicians talking about how they've tried and failed to attack this side of the question in different ways, I may be more sympathetic to the alternatives. The deafening silence on this point makes me very…

It's just a very difficult problem to solve. The drug war has proven you can't just rely on enforcement with laws that run across the economic grain. You need to find a way to align them, and that will take time and massive commitment. Unfortunately we're not collectively interested in that, we're far more interested in proving the other side wrong.

On a side note, a few well-told and politically neutral stories out of Hollywood wouldn't hurt here. We'll likely have immigration solved before we could actually expect that, but a guy can dream.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#222

Post by noobermin » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:33 AM UTC

patrickg_zill wrote: post #47

It would be entirely expected and likely, that were MSFT to cancel their ICE contract, that many other parts of the Federal government would leave MSFT's services. After all, they too would be only 1 media dustup away from having to deal with finding another vendor suddenly.

I don't follow. Parts of the fed gov't frequently don't talk to each other or have connections to each other.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#223

Post by chris_wot » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:37 AM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #141

koolba wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Anyone else that commits a crime and is imprisoned is separated from their family and children. Why should illegal immigrants get a pass?

That's not correct. You don't seperate children from their parents over a misdemeanor.

You can downvote me all you like, it doesn't change the fact that children are being seperated from parents over a misdemeanour "offense".

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#224

Post by downandout » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:38 AM UTC

nickwalton00 wrote: post #129

downandout wrote: post #53

Could someone help me understand the issue with this whole thing? If you show up to commit a crime with your children in tow, you are going to wind up separated from them while you go to jail for that crime. That is as true for illegal entry as it is for bank robbery. Why does the Valley feel that it's OK for immigration laws to be violated? Even very liberal countries around the world tend to be tough on illegal imm…

Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families. Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?

I can imagine that there is a war or floods currently going on in Mexico, but afaik neither of those things are actually happening. Yes, it’s a relatively poor country, and they have problems that they need to solve over there. That doesn’t mean we in the US can afford to just open up the floodgates and let everyone from there that wants to come over into our country.

There is a process to come here legally, and I am all for legal immigration. I just don’t see why it’s remotely controversial to enforce our laws against illegal immigration.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#225

Post by factsaresacred » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:40 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #201

fareesh wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The asylum backlog is 600,000 cases. They are not aslyum seekers, they are trying to take advantage of the backlog since under the earlier process they could just wait for their court date and disappear into the country before that. Asylum requests have gone up over 1000% because this exploit has been figured out and it is now the default method of gaining entry. 83% of the kids aren't even with their parents, they a…

What’s the worst that can happen if we let them in? Our economy improves and our crime rate drops?

1. There's another billion waiting to enter.

2. There is legal process of entry, they should follow it.

3. Illegal immigration drives down wages, crowding out the most vulnerable citizens of the US.

4. A country decides how and when people are allowed in. There are numerous downsides to mass immigration including stress on services like health, social services and accommodation. Again, to the detriment of citizens.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#226

Post by noobermin » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:40 AM UTC

kozikow wrote: post #133

sigmar wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand the issue fully If you don't understand something maybe it is better to go read, rather than post. For one thing, going to a point-of-entry and requesting asylum is not a crime.

You may think it's terribly wrong, but that's how at least half of America thinks about the issue. So far, you only provided (soft) ad hominem attack. Attempting to break a law is not much worse than actually breaking a law.

28% perhaps[0], not half.

[0] https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-ap...

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#227

Post by factsaresacred » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:41 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #208

koolba wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crime isn’t seeking asylum. It’s entering the country illegally. The asylum part is irrelevant for anything beyond creating a sob story for marketing politically divisive messaging.

Asylum is not entering the country illegally, it has a legal process. It is not a non-sequitur, it is the topic under discussion.

And asylum is done at a port of entry, not sneaking through the desert.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#228

Post by chris_wot » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:43 AM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #225

drb91 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the worst that can happen if we let them in? Our economy improves and our crime rate drops?

1. There's another billion waiting to enter. 2. There is legal process of entry, they should follow it. 3. Illegal immigration drives down wages, crowding out the most vulnerable citizens of the US. 4. A country decides how and when people are allowed in. There are numerous downsides to mass immigration including stress on services like health, social services and accommodation. Again, to the detriment of citizens.

What evidence do you have that wages have been driven down illegal immigration?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#229

Post by sigmar » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

kozikow wrote: post #193

sigmar wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. is actually required by law to accept and process valid refugee claims. Or do you think we should only follow laws that you like?

If you love importing whole South America into the USA why won't you just go live there? And leave people, who wouldn't be thrilled to have Pablo Escobar as their neighbour alone?

Laughing pretty hard at the fact that the only South American criminal you could think of died more than 20 years ago

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#230

Post by downandout » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

evanlivingston wrote: post #136

downandout wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a "great idea" to protest enforcement of our own laws?

Laws can be unethical? Protesting Jim Crow laws was a good thing?

It’s unethical to require people from other countries that want to enter the US to follow certain, well established, legal protocols before they enter?

I’m all for legal immigration. I guess I just don’t understand all the support for illegal immigration.

Edit: based on the downvotes, there must be some kind of benefit to the US arising from illegal immigration that I’m missing. Could one of you that downvoted this please explain that benefit to me?