‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#211

Post by beenBoutIT » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #192

ericdykstra wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just play enough clicker games until you realize that "progression for progression's sake" is nothing but an empty dopamine hit. Games can be a fantastic story-telling medium, a competitive environment where you can test your skill and intellect against real human opponents, a lot of pure fun, or a way to spend time playing cooperatively with friends. All of these can be worthwhile activities in different ways. Grind…

>Just play enough clicker games until you realize that "progression for progression's sake" is nothing but an empty dopamine hit. That might be clear for you, but it's not for everyone. The way the OP describes his motivation for gaming sounds extremely similar to people with gambling addictions. Self-awareness isn't enough for everyone. Some people are just wired to respond to that dopamine hit from progression syst…

Sadly, these people are effectively destined to be exploited by one thing or another. From crack rock to food or sex or anything else that they find enjoyable.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#212

Post by feocco » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 11:24 PM UTC

anyfoo wrote: post #207

feocco wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, we better start regulating sports and exercise too! After all, it's an addiction!!! * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction I would equate trying to regulate against "sustained gameplay" to trying to regulate/force timeouts in all basketball games, tennis games, etc. It's absurd. I think vice laws aim to accomplish good but needlessly limit freedom. More importantly, I think comparing gaming…

If people were all reasonable all the time we wouldn’t need laws that prohibit them from driving under influence, stealing or plain murdering people. If excessive sports and exercise were a problem on any large scale, I would advocate for regulation, too. My feeling however is that people rather tend to need incentives for exercising at all, so I’m not holding my breath on that one. Freedom is not absolute if you are…

Regulation of media consumption is not a path I'd care to go down.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#213

Post by anyfoo » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

feocco wrote: post #212

anyfoo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people were all reasonable all the time we wouldn’t need laws that prohibit them from driving under influence, stealing or plain murdering people. If excessive sports and exercise were a problem on any large scale, I would advocate for regulation, too. My feeling however is that people rather tend to need incentives for exercising at all, so I’m not holding my breath on that one. Freedom is not absolute if you are…

Regulation of media consumption is not a path I'd care to go down.

I don't think anyone proposed imposing regulation on the consumer, only on the provider. There is a lot of regulation on that side already, and some of it is actually rather welcomed.

For example, if I compare the amount of advertisement that TV channels are allowed to show in Germany vs. in the US, I am certainly for regulation... (back when I still cared about television)

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#214

Post by scotty79 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:41 AM UTC

pdpi wrote: post #81

ezoe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are rich and no need to work, you hire the servants for your daily meals, hygiene, excretion, and/or remainder for take some sleep, playing game all day long for everyday isn't a disorder.

Not really. Personal, family, social functioning are all impaired still.

What if you don't have family and friends for unrelated reasons? What does personal functioning mean?

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#215

Post by Tycho » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 5:30 AM UTC

BlackFly wrote: post #92

Tycho wrote: post #53

Video games are fine for some people, but for nerd-like personalities they present far too great a temptation to supplant real life goal obtainment with virtual status/achievement. I think its helpful to make people aware of this tendency, and unhelpful to wave it away with a comparison to some more widespread non-nerd past-time like watching TV or sports.

> to supplant real life goal obtainment with virtual status/achievement. If you achieve a world first in an MMO, that achievement is as real as winning a sports championship. Even if you don't do something with a competitive component, some gaming achievements are as real and can be meaningful to the individual as something like climbing a mountain that everyone has climbed before. I don't agree that it is any way he…

The difference is temptation. Climbing a mountain is arduous. Addiction is not likely to be a problem. Even reading becomes kind of a slog. Video games are engineered to feel effortless and supply a constant steady buzz (or dopamine hit or whatever).

Being world No 1 in an MMO may be a real achievement, but for the millions of mediocre players, being a mediocre but persistent sportsman is likely to lead to far greater life outcomes as side effects. (And, again, physical limits stop the temptation becoming all consuming.)

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#216

Post by ericdykstra » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 6:22 AM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #143

ericdykstra wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starcraft and RTS is general is a great game that rewards higher-level strategy thinking, attention management, and a number of other skills. Becoming proficient is no joke, and pros need to spend more of their time practicing than traditional sports because there is less of a physical tax from practice. But it's just like any hobby. If it's not your profession, you need to make sure you're not putting your long-term…

For Starcraft specifically, I've probably played 2k hours of SC:BW and maybe 3-4k of SC2, so I'd agree it is no joke and practicing is quite important. I managed to reach the top 2% of MMR by grinding out numerous games (as Zerg, FWIW), averaging 2.5 h/daily at my peak. I would practice economy/production (macro) and build orders outside of my matches, then bring those in to the competitive 1v1 ladder and figure out…

That's awesome! Reaching Master League in SC2 is quite an accomplishment. I did it myself with Zerg and then Protoss, but only barely and only in 2 seasons.

The high intensity, unreachable skill ceiling, and quick feedback loop of Starcraft really taught me how improving a skill needs to be an active process. You don't just get better by grinding out games (at least not efficiently); you need to study your own play, find weaknesses in it, and work on them methodically. Having that background has helped me in other kinds of skill acquisition.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#217

Post by srrge » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 7:05 AM UTC

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #149

srrge wrote: post #146

As a 43 year old with two jobs and two kids, I found myself playing 500 hours of PlayerUnknown's Battleground in a few months. I had to uninstall the game. The addiction was very real.

Did you lose your job, destroy relationships with your family and friends? Or did this merely replace 500 hours that would have been spent watching TV, Netflix or other types of entertainment? The word addiction has a real meaning with some clinical ways for a trained person to diagnose somebody as having it. I think of addiction more like alcoholism. Sure video games are engineered these days to be huge time sinks b…

I am self-employed (I actually run two small companies) and I sent some of my work days playing PUBG. Also I had less interaction with my kids and wife, and no other hobby really.

I looked at PUBG videos very often, sometimes live streams, at the office during the day.

I was thinking about PUBG all day long. It was bad.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#218

Post by zaarn » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 7:47 AM UTC

anyfoo wrote: post #213

feocco wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation of media consumption is not a path I'd care to go down.

I don't think anyone proposed imposing regulation on the consumer, only on the provider. There is a lot of regulation on that side already, and some of it is actually rather welcomed. For example, if I compare the amount of advertisement that TV channels are allowed to show in Germany vs. in the US, I am certainly for regulation... (back when I still cared about television)

I agree on that comparison. Since I regularly consume an american TV show as part of a community, I get to see the ads too. For the 20 minute episode, there is 10 minutes of ads, just over 1 minute each 2 or 3 minutes, roughly.

The same episode on german TV has three ad interruptions. One 5 minute one in the middle, a overlay ad about 5 minutes before the end and a zoom out during the credits showing ads to the side (the later two circumvent the normal limit of ads per hour and spacing requirements.)

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#219

Post by mattbrewsbytes » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

srrge wrote: post #217

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you lose your job, destroy relationships with your family and friends? Or did this merely replace 500 hours that would have been spent watching TV, Netflix or other types of entertainment? The word addiction has a real meaning with some clinical ways for a trained person to diagnose somebody as having it. I think of addiction more like alcoholism. Sure video games are engineered these days to be huge time sinks b…

I am self-employed (I actually run two small companies) and I sent some of my work days playing PUBG. Also I had less interaction with my kids and wife, and no other hobby really. I looked at PUBG videos very often, sometimes live streams, at the office during the day. I was thinking about PUBG all day long. It was bad.

Awesome that you're running two companies!

I was just pointing out there is a difference between an actual clinical addiction vs. a really bad habit.

I know the feeling about gaming and have been in similar shoes. I actually stop myself and check if I am doing something out of habit or because I want to... and have found I want to do other hobbies more, its just the inertia to get over the habitual actions that is the problem sometimes.

Re: ‘Gaming disorder’ is officially recognized by the World Health Organization

#220

Post by srrge » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #219

srrge wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am self-employed (I actually run two small companies) and I sent some of my work days playing PUBG. Also I had less interaction with my kids and wife, and no other hobby really. I looked at PUBG videos very often, sometimes live streams, at the office during the day. I was thinking about PUBG all day long. It was bad.

Awesome that you're running two companies! I was just pointing out there is a difference between an actual clinical addiction vs. a really bad habit. I know the feeling about gaming and have been in similar shoes. I actually stop myself and check if I am doing something out of habit or because I want to... and have found I want to do other hobbies more, its just the inertia to get over the habitual actions that is th…

The point that you dispute is the term addiction. You mention an "habit" for instance. My point is: video games can REALLY be an addiction even for older people.