Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype • Hacker News Board

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#101

Post by nerdwaller » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

CrazyInNewYork wrote: post #2

it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. Transferring money internationally without additional costs. Portfolio optimizat…

The anonymity is extremely over sold with most cryptocurrencies. If the goal is to pay and be paid with them, then the second you pay or get paid you’re trusting the other party to not disclose the user/wallet relationship. The second they do, every thing you’ve ever done with that wallet is visible. I’d expect the current selling of user data to 3rd parties to continue, regardless of payment methodologies.

Even if you strictly “invest” with cryptocurrencies you’re moving money in via fiat, so whomever you do that through also ties you to an address (or omnibus pool while you’re on an exchange).

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#102

Post by root_axis » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

brandonsometig wrote: post #94

root_axis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're simply trading one government for another more nebulous and less accountable one; the schism over block-size is a perfect example of this and that's peanuts compared to the types of issues that are to come. There is absolutely zero guarantee that the mining cartels won't print more bitcoin; the final decision on whether or not to do so rests with them and it is in their direct financial interest to do so even…

Miners don't have the ability to 'print' more Bitcoin. They can release blocks with whatever transactions they like in but they will simply be rejected by the network. The fact that there is 10,000 public bitcoin nodes (and probably x10 private ones) keeps the system honest.

You're right that the miners don't have unilateral authority to print more bitcoin, but ultimately they are the muscle behind the process. This is akin to saying "the military can't just print more money to pay for military spending". This is true, and it's unlikely that the military would turn their guns on the institutions in order to achieve this goal because it would threaten the stability of the entire system in which they thrive (like with the miners and bitcoin)... yet... somehow things always work out in such a way where they get their money. It never gets to the point where they have to turn their guns on anyone because their silent authority confers enough influence that the politicians making the decisions (i.e. developer cabals in the case of bitcoin) manage to find solutions that keep them fat and happy while delivering enough voluble rhetoric to ensure that the general population doesn't revolt.

Same thing will happen for the miners eventually.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#103

Post by stale2002 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

NathanCH wrote: post #86

stale2002 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking about societial collapse using the future tense, as if this is some hypothetical situation. It is not a hypothetical situation. It is happening right now in Venezuela. All you have to do is look how Venezuelans are using Bitcoin right NOW to understand it's value.

Venezuela is not using Bitcoin on any large scale. And if the people were, they would have lost 30% of their money in the last month. I don't think this is a good argument.

Losing 30% of their money I'm the last month is an AMAZING deal for venzuelens.

The Venezuelan dollar would have lost much more in value during that time period.

Volatility doesn't matter when your nation's currency is way way worse.

A mere 30% loss in a single month is an amazing deal, compared to what they have to deal with.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#104

Post by root_axis » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

bitcoinisqueen wrote: post #90

phobosdeimos wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin for us mere mortals who are not drugdealers seems unlikely. It simply doesn't solve a problem that people have. I can pay for my groceries waving a plastic card around and it costs me nothing. Traditional payment systems are safer, cheaper and more efficient than crypto.

Tell that to citizens of Greece when the banks took 20% of everyone's life savings a few years ago. Tell that to the 3B people in the world who live on less than $2/day and banks will not deal with them. You make claims that traditional payment systems are more efficient.... but did not include an energy calculation to maintain those banks, armoured cars, and infrastructure as compared to bitcoin energy consumption.

>$2/day and banks will not deal with them

People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#105

Post by bitcoinisqueen » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #104

bitcoinisqueen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to citizens of Greece when the banks took 20% of everyone's life savings a few years ago. Tell that to the 3B people in the world who live on less than $2/day and banks will not deal with them. You make claims that traditional payment systems are more efficient.... but did not include an energy calculation to maintain those banks, armoured cars, and infrastructure as compared to bitcoin energy consumption.

> $2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.

No. You are out of touch.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/1...

The fact is that 20% of the world's poorest has a smartphone and is in many cases more valuable than running water or sanitation.

Within 10-20 years we will have 50km range wifi, with solar powered batteries and ultra low cost computing power and many more of the poor will be brought into the connected economica world via smartphones, long range power and internet tech and micro transactions with ultra low fees powered by tech like bitcoin (cash).

The last startup I worked at 3 years ago sold Android smartphones for $5 USD.

Unbelievable that I get called out of touch when the author is a couple years behind the curve. Nice vision and imagination, man.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#106

Post by dang » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #104

bitcoinisqueen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to citizens of Greece when the banks took 20% of everyone's life savings a few years ago. Tell that to the 3B people in the world who live on less than $2/day and banks will not deal with them. You make claims that traditional payment systems are more efficient.... but did not include an energy calculation to maintain those banks, armoured cars, and infrastructure as compared to bitcoin energy consumption.

> $2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.

Crossing into personal attack like this breaks the HN guidelines and demonstrably leads to worse, as demonstrated below. Please don't. Maybe you don't owe better to someone else who you consider wrong, but you do owe better to the community.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#107

Post by kruhft » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

nwah1 wrote: post #64

kruhft wrote: post #6

I think they make good data stores.

Extremely slow and expensive data stores that are reliant on a large number of gullible people to waste their computational resources in order to provide it to you.

More like permanent data stores. "Stone printers" I call them. Life lives as long as the data has value, and what a better way to represent the value of a blockchain but the value of the data that's stored in it rather than speculation.

If data is so fucking valuable.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#108

Post by dang » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

bitcoinisqueen wrote: post #105

root_axis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.

No. You are out of touch. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/1... The fact is that 20% of the world's poorest has a smartphone and is in many cases more valuable than running water or sanitation. Within 10-20 years we will have 50km range wifi, with solar powered batteries and ultra low cost computing power and many more of the poor will be brought into the connected economica world via smartp…

Would you please stop posting flamebait comments on divisive topics to Hacker News? It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#109

Post by root_axis » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #106

root_axis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $2/day and banks will not deal with them People living on $2 a day generally don't have reliable access to computers, electricity, internet or the technical literacy necessary to navigate the cryptocurrency minefield.

Crossing into personal attack like this breaks the HN guidelines and demonstrably leads to worse, as demonstrated below. Please don't. Maybe you don't owe better to someone else who you consider wrong, but you do owe better to the community. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. Edited to remove personal attack.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#110

Post by bitcoinisqueen » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 6:30 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #108

bitcoinisqueen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You are out of touch. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/01/1... The fact is that 20% of the world's poorest has a smartphone and is in many cases more valuable than running water or sanitation. Within 10-20 years we will have 50km range wifi, with solar powered batteries and ultra low cost computing power and many more of the poor will be brought into the connected economica world via smartp…

Would you please stop posting flamebait comments on divisive topics to Hacker News? It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It is divisive to point out that the hype behind crypto currencies has to do with empowering the poor?

My apologies for bringing up facts when parent brought a personal attack.