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Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

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21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#21

it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. Transferring money internationally without additional costs. Portfolio optimizat…

You're joking, right?

> Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes?

As stated in other comments, Bitcoin is hardly anonymous anymore. There's a much greater ability to trace wallet addresses back to individuals or groups than there used to be.

> Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant.

Fraud was (and likely still is) rampant in the digital currency community when Bitcoin hit its peak. Plenty of it was going on in direct relation to the system and we've also seen the 51% attacks plus price manipulation.

Also, at least with credit there's legal recourse. It's at least something compared to nothing with digital currencies.

> Transferring money internationally without additional costs.

At Bitcoin's peak there was a significant cost to doing any transfers. This is now admittedly lower but to the average person I don't think this is a strong enough argument alone.

> Portfolio optimization. Crypto currencies are probably not perfectly correlated to other assets. So it stabilizes the portfolio to add some crypto.

This is where I start to think you're joking. The volatility of digital currencies doesn't stabilize any portfolio. At best it contributes to a diversified portfolio. At worst, you're correct, it doesn't really correlate to any asset. It is tied to nothing tangible.

You can argue that something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it but that's such a terrible argument when the few businesses who tried accepting it are moving away from that, volatility again being one of the major issues. At a certain point there's nothing to be gained other than 'street cred' for having more of these coins attributed to an address that you claim to own.

Blockchain technology will stick around, digital currencies, at least those supposedly worth thousands, will not. I'm sure by now readers can tell I'm very against this. The people riding the digital currency hype train sound no different to me than those involved in pyramid and/or ponzi schemes.

The fact that Bitcoin is consuming so much electricity and takes so much computing power to confirm a transaction should be enough of an argument against it.

Also, what do you propose when quantum becomes mainstream? Every wallet in existing currencies will be cracked in mere seconds and investors will lose all of the coin they will have amassed. I'm sure someone will try to create a quantum digital currency but by then the opportunists that make up most of this market will hopefully realize how overhyped this was.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#22
post #21

it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. Transferring money internationally without additional costs. Portfolio optimizat…

You're joking, right? > Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? As stated in other comments, Bitcoin is hardly anonymous anymore. There's a much greater ability to trace wallet addresses back to individuals or groups than there used to be. > Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit C…

Cryptocurrencies != bitcoin.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#23
post #14
post #13

> it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve It is hard to identify such a problem till you believe you can withdraw your money from a bank anytime. Visiting a bank and getting an answer "please come tomorrow" for several weeks changes a person's view on cryptocurrencies and problems they could solve, imo.

Let's imagine a scenario where you're not able to withdraw from a bank due to insolvency. If you're in the US your deposits (principal + interest) are insured up to $250,000 by the federal government. [0] If the federal government is insolvent your cryptocurrency will be useless because you won't have reliable Internet access and thus you won't have access to the resources needed to make or verify transactions on you…

You are talking about societial collapse using the future tense, as if this is some hypothetical situation.

It is not a hypothetical situation. It is happening right now in Venezuela.

All you have to do is look how Venezuelans are using Bitcoin right NOW to understand it's value.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#24

How about currency monopoly? Hyper inflation? Debt slavery for all mankind?

That's one way of looking at it. I think there is a place for both - the banking system and bitcoin. bitcoin is a very interesting financial instrument that allows trustless transfers of money, while the banking system allows credit as an instrument to do things like finance homes, cars, etc.

Credit is a really tough problem for bitcoin to solve, since banks can create currency.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#25

> Yet, looking beyond the hype, it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve. People seem to forget that cryptocurrencies emerged from a culture of cryptoanarchy, not from economists or governments. Anarchists generally don't want to help the government solve problems, they view the government as the very problem to solve. (I'm speaking very broadly here.)

Whatever “culture” supposedly created it, that’s not the real use case. The same people who will rant about “fiat” will in the next breath, talk about various measures to centralize crypto through PoW. It’s about making money by any and all means including outright fraud, not ideology.

Most damning to me is that the case against cryptocurrency takes two sentences to clearly outline, while the case for them is yet to even emerge.

Transactions are slow and costly, prone to congestion, and cannot scale with demand. The decentralised consensus behind the technology is also fragile and consumes vast amounts of energy.

Nailed it.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#26
Cryptocurrencies are interesting to me right now in that they have not suffered any plausible advanced attacks capable of zeroing them. What is stopping a state actor from using their backdoors in internet infrastructure to destroy the Bitcoin network topology for a long enough period of time to destroy the network? Is secp256k1 backdoored? My bet is that state actors are saving their guaranteed Bitcoin destruct buttons for the perfect moment.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#27
post #21

it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. Transferring money internationally without additional costs. Portfolio optimizat…

You're joking, right? > Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? As stated in other comments, Bitcoin is hardly anonymous anymore. There's a much greater ability to trace wallet addresses back to individuals or groups than there used to be. > Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit C…

Bitcoin for us mere mortals who are not drugdealers seems unlikely. It simply doesn't solve a problem that people have. I can pay for my groceries waving a plastic card around and it costs me nothing.

Traditional payment systems are safer, cheaper and more efficient than crypto.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#28

it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve Receiving, owning and spending money anonymously. Remember when extortionists had to be paid with a suitcase full of banknotes? Receiving money without being exposed to the danger of fraud. Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. Transferring money internationally without additional costs. Portfolio optimizat…

> Receiving money via Credit Card is surprisingly risky for the merchant. In this aspect cryptocurrencies are surprisingly dangerous for the customer because there is no easy way to revert a transaction done by mistake or fraud (lets say someone cracked your wallet). With credit cards in the worst case you just screw the merchant and I guess this is what marketplaces will end up doing instead of setting up their own…

You can build in the ability to reverse cryptocurrency transactions into wallets however that use case is well covered by credit cards.

Credit cards/checks: Merchant trusts user, user doesn't trust merchant

Wire-transfers/Cashiers Checks/Cash/Bitcoin: User trusts merchant, merchant doesn't trust user

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#29

> Yet, looking beyond the hype, it is hard to identify a specific economic problem which they currently solve. People seem to forget that cryptocurrencies emerged from a culture of cryptoanarchy, not from economists or governments. Anarchists generally don't want to help the government solve problems, they view the government as the very problem to solve. (I'm speaking very broadly here.)

I find that most extreme ideologies simply boil down to people not wanting someone to have any control over them.

They don't care for certain aspects of the social contract and want to be able to flaunt it at will with no repercussions. Or they don't want to pay taxes or some other thing. Whatever, they feel that society at large is what's holding them back, not simply a lack of ability or drive.

At least with religious fundamentalists or whatever flavor of totalitarianism you're comfortable with, it's clear what their answer to the problem of force is: be the force.

Anarchists have no answer to that. They want to "be free to do whatever" but when confronted with the question of what happens when I want their shit, they invariably create government. Oh, I can't take their shit because there will be rules. In the community they live, you can't live there if you take other people's shit.

Yeah. That's just government. That's politics. That's the social contract. We all agree not to do shit in order for us to live relatively peaceful, chill lives.

Government, in the broad sense, is not the problem. The problem is that governments are still run by people. And we're kind of fucked up. And we often make mistakes.

Re: Cryptocurrencies: looking beyond the hype

#30
post #16

"The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an international financial institution owned by central banks." You can make your own mind up on whether this would make them biased or not.

I like the phrasing :

   Policy responses need to prevent abuses while allowing further experimentation.
Maybe bitcoin and cryptos were actually allowed to exists thanks to central banks and friendly governments
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