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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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211–220 of 357 posts

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#211

After reading a bit about the history of tax in the USA, I was surprised to learn that in the very beginning federal government was mostly funded by tariffs. So.. Extra tariffs will bring extra tax revenue. Will federal government cut income/corporate taxes to adjust for it? Or perhaps any paid tariff can be written off of tax bill?

Income taxes (the primary source of current US gov't revenue) were unconstitutional until the 16th amendment in 1913.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#212

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

I disagree. Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam. So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration…

> this tariff thing is only costing the consumer. The consumers are the losers

yes. the consumers are the losers.

OTOH, the US is now in a position to question and modify the consumer-centric policies the US has embraced for decades.

the US is beginning a real-life experimental modification of the policy of prioritizing low consumer prices over other things.

this will have upsides and downsides.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#213
post #197

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

> This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. Except that's not what the article says. The tariffs in question don't apply to finished products. So it wouldn't make a Chinese microwave more expensive. However, if you want to import components to build a microwave and hire US workers to put it together, that is what these tariffs make much more expensive. So instead of hiring US workers to assemble it in the…

I meant "this one" in abstract, not the one in the article. Ie you can easily link an item in a shop to a clause in your policy and an amount that has been paid. There is no way to understand that implications so simply with (eg) quotas.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.

I don't know anything about economy, so this is a question not.. a counter, but: > In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition. Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item…

This can also hurt US production. This makes US goods more expensive, not only for Americans but for everyone. Now US goods look even worse to any would be importer.

Maybe this policy forces Americans to buy American but unless we make up every lost export with a domestic purchase it only hurts.

And this is before we even consider retaliatory tariffs.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#215
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. Except that's not what the article says. The tariffs in question don't apply to finished products. So it wouldn't make a Chinese microwave more expensive. However, if you want to import components to build a microwave and hire US workers to put it together, that is what these tariffs make much more expensive. So instead of hiring US workers to assemble it in the…

I meant "this one" in abstract, not the one in the article. Ie you can easily link an item in a shop to a clause in your policy and an amount that has been paid. There is no way to understand that implications so simply with (eg) quotas.

Sure, if you want to make an abstract, general statement about how tariffs, as a concept have certain advantages, ok.

I don't see how that's relevant to the specific disadvantages the article is pointing out about this tariff in particular.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#216
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually just replaced a 3 year old Samsung Electric Dryer. The heat was no longer working, and I suspect it was the heating element. To access the heating element required me to: - Take off the control board - Take off the entire top of the dryer - Take out the door - Take out the Front panel - Take out the drum I only figured this out after finding a service manual, as I did not want to risk destroying a dryer to…

That the way all new washer / dryers are now. It's cheaper to replace than to fix them... the cost/benefit of having someone come out to see what the problem is just isn't worth it anymore. This isn't a Samsung thing... I had the same thing happen with a Whirlpool washing machine just a few years ago. And I did take the thing apart to see what needed fixing -- it would have been much more expensive to fix it rather t…

I agree, at $100 to bring someone out just to look at it (and not even fix!)...it really isn't worth it. Some dryers seemed to be a bit more friendly, I ended up getting a dryer that you could remove the back panel. I would assume (more hope) this makes it easier to replace parts.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff. So they do cost the public. In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.

1.) Americans are now preferring to buy 'made in US' "U.S. consumers are willing to pay more for “Made in America” goods, according to a recent nationwide survey" https://morningconsult.com/2017/11/21/poll-support-for-purch... 2.) tariffs encourage reshoring and new robotics/automation factories, which is still net jobs for US. which also makes prices back to where it was before tariffs (maybe even less) "171,000 JOB…

1) The point of tariffs is to force people to buy local production, by making alternatives more expensive. If people are willing to pay more to buy Made in US, you don't need them.

2) The source for that number shows that reshoring has been steadily increasing for years [1]. So why the need for tariffs now? Hell, seems like you'd just want to keep up the previous administration's polices - clearly they're working.

[1] http://reshorenow.org/blog/reshoring-initiative-2017-data-re...

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#218
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) Tariffs are imposing taxes on the very businesses we're supposedly trying to save!

Over time tariffs will spur increased domestic replacement manufacturing vs Chinese imports. If the US were primarily harming itself with tariffs, other nations wouldn't be reacting the way they are. They all know the game is up and they're all desperately looking to hold onto their advantages. US manufacturing costs are nearly on par with China at this point because of the vast inflation in costs that have occurred…

>If the US were primarily harming itself with tariffs, other nations wouldn't be reacting the way they are.

Invalid argument. You could easily have a policy that harms yourself and others.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about food. You can't just put up a farm and start producing a few weeks later. Depending on the crop it can take years before a farm is productive. So no, new suppliers don't just 'spring up'. This sort of economic activity can lead to food shortages.

This is why the US subsidizes agriculture so heavily, so they can quickly spin up more farms

Oh, really? Where's all the farmland going to come from?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no trade deficit with Canada.

There was a cumulative $370 billion trade deficit going back to 2007, and a nearly $800 billion trade deficit back to year 2000. There has been a trade deficit with Canada every year the past 30+ years, including so far in 2018. [1] How would Canada like to run a $800 billion trade deficit with the US over the next 17 years? You know, just to make things fair over time. Didn't think so. On the upside, the trade defic…

Funnily enough, the US numbers show a trade deficit with Canada, and the Canadian numbers show a trade deficit with the US. Who knew - it turns out that how you compute these things gives you the ability to wiggle a bit.

What is generally accepted though, is that internationally speaking the US and Canada are one of the most balanced know of, over long periods, and for major trading partners.

Pretending otherwise is just serving partisan politics at this point.

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