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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#191

Post by anon23423532 »

linuxps2 wrote: post #176
anon23423532 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tariffed our "allies" because our "allies" allow China to setup shell corporations in their countries so China can abuse trade agreements to get around direct tariffs. In return they make billions for being willing to stab the US in the back. We need to do this because China steals 300 billion dollars in IP from American corporations every year, in addition to illegally subsidizing their companies to steal globa…

China also gives us goods far below what we could produce them for which lowers our cost of living. Complaining about China stealing $300b (I'll use your number because it doesn't really matter) in IP is like complaining about high school kids stealing Adobe CC - it's a theoretical loss, they weren't going to be a customer regardless. Tariffs don't even do anything to prevent IP theft

It gives Chinese companies a competitive advantage because instead of spending billions on R&D they just steal it.

The point is that the tariffs will be removed IF China stops stealing IP

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#192

Post by echotango »

RoyTyrell wrote: post #170
echotango wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Heavily protectionist. Thats exactly how an unbiased economist would characterize US trade policy. Stop watching msnbc dude. The USA became the world's largest evonomy with massive tariffs on basically all imports. Smoot Hawley Act anyone? Those were removed gradualy starting in the 1970's and lo and behold the trade deficit sky rocketted while the manufacturing economy plummeted.

> Those were removed gradualy starting in the 1970's [...] > trade deficit sky rocketted Is a trade deficit important to not have? > manufacturing economy plummeted. By which metric?

A trade deficit means that, on net, your trade partners end up with your currency and no goods to buy with it. So they start buying up assets in your country. Factories, companies, land, housing, bonds, etc. so by maintaining a trade deficit for so long, we have legally sold a large fraction of the assets in our country to foreign investors. (Foreign direct investment) How do you think Trump made his billions?

Having Saudi Oil Sheiks own all the Soccer teams in England is the result of the UK trade deficit.

Having chineese bussinessmen buy up all the valuable real estate in our biggest cities is a result of the trade deficit.

Massive underemployment (more baristas fewer mechanics) is a result of the trade deficit.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#193

Post by jonatron »

throwawayjava wrote: post #122
tomp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hence tariffs.

The argument that Switzerland provides a model for high tariffs creating wealth is... especially ironic. Switzerland is one of the least tariff-encumbered economies in the world, reguarly topping out various free trade indicies [1]. And in Switzerland's case, that's almost certainly causual. Average salaries in Switzerland are so high because of the disproprtionate role Switzerland plays in EU and global banking -- a…

You didn't explicitly say it was, but you didn't make it clear that Switzerland isn't in the EU.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#194

Post by mbreese »

kop316 wrote: post #74
paulie_a wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely off topic, but I will never buy another Samsung appliance or anything anymore. Great hardware but shit software...my refrigerator should not need to reboot.

I actually just replaced a 3 year old Samsung Electric Dryer. The heat was no longer working, and I suspect it was the heating element. To access the heating element required me to: - Take off the control board - Take off the entire top of the dryer - Take out the door - Take out the Front panel - Take out the drum I only figured this out after finding a service manual, as I did not want to risk destroying a dryer to…

That the way all new washer / dryers are now. It's cheaper to replace than to fix them... the cost/benefit of having someone come out to see what the problem is just isn't worth it anymore. This isn't a Samsung thing... I had the same thing happen with a Whirlpool washing machine just a few years ago.

And I did take the thing apart to see what needed fixing -- it would have been much more expensive to fix it rather than replace it.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#195

Post by IanDrake »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #121
endorphone wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire worldwide trade order was created by the US throwing its weight around. Those cheap Chinese goods, Korea, Japan, the WTO, the poles of axis. Drug prices, intellectual property protections. All courtesy of the US. That order that made the US the richest country in the world, home to the most powerful companies in the world. So the whole Trump narrative that you're regurgitating is a bit odd. And it is alrea…

"Trump's ignorant, hap-hazard way of "negotiating" has alienated foes and made the world re-evaluate why it is playing the US agenda." What's much worse is that he has allienated friends (specifically when they refuse to kiss his ring, but I digress) and mostly for no good reason at all. The US squandered their advantage of having been respected as a (mostly) reliable partner to a definite CAN NOT BE TRUSTED! in not…

I think you’re using the word respect wrong. Respect is not earned by being amiable.

In the not too distant past we had a president draw lines in the sand and dared others to cross it. Then they crossed it and we did nothing.

That did more to lose respect in the world than anything being done today.

Today we are saying we want better trade deals for US goods and we’re not asking.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#196

Post by ska »

frockington wrote: post #109
ska wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

I believe nobody should have tariffs. Understanding that is never going to happen, it should at least be a starting ppoint

Wait, so your first step is for other countries to remove their subsidies/tariffs but the US doesn't do the same? How well do you think that will fly in those countries?

If you mean you'd like to see the US and those countries both drop tariffs and protections, I can see you argument - but that's the opposite of the direction things are going today so I don't see the relevance. Even if it were not, it's hard to argue against a countries legitimate security concerns in some areas, although clearly that argument can be abused (again, cf current rhetoric).

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#197

Post by imgabe »

dalbasal wrote: post #19

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

> This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive.

Except that's not what the article says. The tariffs in question don't apply to finished products. So it wouldn't make a Chinese microwave more expensive.

However, if you want to import components to build a microwave and hire US workers to put it together, that is what these tariffs make much more expensive. So instead of hiring US workers to assemble it in the US, you do the whole thing in China and import it with no tariffs.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#198

Post by imgabe »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #165

There seems to be a lot of groupthink on HN. Pretty much every comment in this thread that views tariffs remotely positively is being downvoted. I view them slightly negatively, but protectionism (not necessarily tariffs) does help struggling or new industries develop if coupled with good export policies (see China, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan for examples), so the idea that tariffs have no arguments for them seem…

Did you read the article? The tariff is not protecting US businesses. It is encouraging as much manufacturing as possible to take place overseas, because the tariff does not apply to finished products.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#199

Post by selectodude »

raesene9 wrote: post #189
anon23423532 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tariffed our "allies" because our "allies" allow China to setup shell corporations in their countries so China can abuse trade agreements to get around direct tariffs. In return they make billions for being willing to stab the US in the back. We need to do this because China steals 300 billion dollars in IP from American corporations every year, in addition to illegally subsidizing their companies to steal globa…

You got a Citation for Canada and the EU allowing Chinese steel shell companies (the recent tariffs against canada and the EU targeted steel)? I'd not heard that argument at all so far.

A name with a bunch of numbers behind it spouting off unsourced nonsense is trademark Russian bots on Twitter, so I'd just leave it alone.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#200

Post by sumeonenew »

Canada wrote: post #190
sumeonenew wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Americans are now preferring to buy 'made in US' "U.S. consumers are willing to pay more for “Made in America” goods, according to a recent nationwide survey" https://morningconsult.com/2017/11/21/poll-support-for-purch... 2.) tariffs encourage reshoring and new robotics/automation factories, which is still net jobs for US. which also makes prices back to where it was before tariffs (maybe even less) "171,000 JOB…

1) Forget what people say, look at what they do.

1.) when US consumers have choices, they will buy American

2.) US economy is at an all time high, and projects a 4% growth this quarter. this will allow some price indifferences amongst consumers. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/15/goldman-sachs-model-now-poin...

3.) Also added benefit, allows US consumers to not support a Chinese dictator who imprisons millions in a concentration camp

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