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Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

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Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#41

I do wonder, what, exactly they mean by non-violent crimes. It's early in the morning and my brain isn't quite up to snuff yet, but all I can think of are vandalism, copyright violation, and stealing...?

It would include drug crimes as well. I think you can take the words at face value (with an implied 'physically' modifying 'violent'), except that crimes involving only the threat of violence may count as violent crimes.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#43

In Australia, they have (or were) using flying lessons to try and rehabilitate drug addicts [1]. Apparently the idea was to stall the plane and have the patients recover from the stall, as a way of teaching them about taking control of their own life. I don't know what the long term results are, and it's part of a longer term rehab program so it would be hard to narrow it down specifically. Regardless, it's an intere…

I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see them as rewarding people for bad behaviour.

I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#44
When I was a teenager (in the 90s) I was a chess teacher/coach. I won't quote cliches and metaphors which I believe are trite and gloss over the point.

While we had a large group of behaved kids, some parents would send their troublesome children to learn chess as a way to socialize in a healthy intellectual environment with a strong value and ethics system. As a coach it was very difficult, especially since I was socially awkward and troubled myself as a teen. We wouldn't just play chess though - which can get very competitive and one sided. We also enjoyed team activities like the chess variants bughouse and kriegspiel, and we'd get outside and play soccer and kickball too - I found those to be the most helpful (I love those two variants I mentioned much more than chess).

In short, the rewards were real and long-lasting. Chess helped turn me around personally, and gave me an exposure for responsibility (and I fucked up a couple times but that's part of learning from mistakes in life). I know many of the children in our club went on to have responsible and successful lives, and while it wasn't really our goal (we were just playing games!), it makes me happy that it was a side effect.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#45

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

Besides, if we skip science, the tetris analogy seems way more accurate than chess.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#46

I do wonder, what, exactly they mean by non-violent crimes. It's early in the morning and my brain isn't quite up to snuff yet, but all I can think of are vandalism, copyright violation, and stealing...?

Most property crimes, such as theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods, vandalism, and arson of personal property Fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime Drug and alcohol-related crimes Prostitution Racketeering and gambling Bribery From: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-violent-v...

I don't think they're locking kids up in juvie for tax evasion...

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most property crimes, such as theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods, vandalism, and arson of personal property Fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime Drug and alcohol-related crimes Prostitution Racketeering and gambling Bribery From: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-violent-v...

I don't think they're locking kids up in juvie for tax evasion...

Technically children do have to pay taxes.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#48
post #43

In Australia, they have (or were) using flying lessons to try and rehabilitate drug addicts [1]. Apparently the idea was to stall the plane and have the patients recover from the stall, as a way of teaching them about taking control of their own life. I don't know what the long term results are, and it's part of a longer term rehab program so it would be hard to narrow it down specifically. Regardless, it's an intere…

I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see them as rewarding people for bad behaviour. I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for 10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the voters and politicians want.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#49
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see them as rewarding people for bad behaviour. I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for 10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the voters and politicians want.

The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice and beans.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#50
post #40

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

Agree on the limits of post-hoc reasoning. In my limited experience, these kids may reacting positively not due to anything specific about chess or the program, rather to the fact that people seem to care about their development and options. Plus the fact they are being put through a non-antagonistic and less dangerous program than juvie. I also think it's a great idea.

In the same vein, it's unfortunately pretty common for pilot programs like this to be successful, in part because there's lots of attention and focus on success. Then you scale it up and the good results evaporate.
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