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Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

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Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#31

Post by mehrdadn »

toolslive wrote: post #26
mehrdadn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With chess at least you have to restart from the beginning, like starting your life over I guess, making you rethink your strategy. With video games you typically regain health and restart from the last save...

In the middle ages, backgammon was more popular than chess as it was seen as a closer to real life than chess. In backgammon, you have the concept of luck playing a role too. The meta lesson is: Luck can play a big role, but you still need a strategy.

Life isn't quite as nondeterministic as backgammon!!

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#32

Post by tgb »

mehrdadn wrote: post #29
swift532 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the game. They could play Civilization which gives someone an intro to strategy, history, politics and science all in a friendly looking package, and when you lose you have to start over from the ancient era.

Is Civilization different from, say, Age of Empires in this respect? Because in AoE you keep your card deck etc. and merely restart the battle, which still puts you at an advantage compared to when you started off.

Yes, there's no carryover between games of Civilization. Then again, I'm pretty sure the card deck you're referring to only exists in AoE 3 which makes it pretty unique in the genre. Almost every other RTS has you start from scratch each match.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#33

Post by mehrdadn »

tgb wrote: post #32
mehrdadn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Civilization different from, say, Age of Empires in this respect? Because in AoE you keep your card deck etc. and merely restart the battle, which still puts you at an advantage compared to when you started off.

Yes, there's no carryover between games of Civilization. Then again, I'm pretty sure the card deck you're referring to only exists in AoE 3 which makes it pretty unique in the genre. Almost every other RTS has you start from scratch each match.

Haha, yeah, I was referring to AoE3, since I haven't played the others. Good to know!

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#34

Post by icebraining »

dschuetz wrote: post #5

"Every move has consequences" - That is absolutely brilliant! Is there any better way to explain such an abstract life concept to kids who can't see the consequences of whatever they do?

I know a few "problematic" kids, from slackers to convicted violent robbers, and none of them deny the existence of consequences. What I see is overconfidence in their ability to predict them, or a fatalism about their lack of real options.

I can see chess helping with some aspects of their mental health (training calm logical thinking, coping with losing), but I don't think it actually teaches anything about consequences.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#36

Post by skj »

ramblerman wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in an industry which encourages ADD. Chess is one of the ways I maintain my attention span. My game tells me when I’m tired, stressed, inattentive or missing forests for trees.

Me too. I notice a distinct drop in my tactic exercises when I'm underslept. Not sure what that has to do with my initial point though.

Some times people just like to say things that add to the conversation without driving someone else's point. It's not a problem.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#37

Post by michaelt »

omeid2 wrote: post #13
ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

How is making an analogy for action and consequence is hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning?

ramblerman interprets "In life, like chess, every move has a consequence" to mean "The reason this program is effective is it teaches offenders that moves have consequences" and considers that a post-hoc explanation.

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#39

Post by chriskanan »

mondoshawan wrote: post #38

I do wonder, what, exactly they mean by non-violent crimes. It's early in the morning and my brain isn't quite up to snuff yet, but all I can think of are vandalism, copyright violation, and stealing...?

Most property crimes, such as theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods, vandalism, and arson of personal property

Fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime

Drug and alcohol-related crimes

Prostitution

Racketeering and gambling

Bribery

From: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-violent-v...

Re: Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results

#40

Post by ska »

ramblerman wrote: post #8

> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence. This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning. My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results. disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the pseudo-scientif…

Agree on the limits of post-hoc reasoning.

In my limited experience, these kids may reacting positively not due to anything specific about chess or the program, rather to the fact that people seem to care about their development and options. Plus the fact they are being put through a non-antagonistic and less dangerous program than juvie.

I also think it's a great idea.

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