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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#51

Post by fentonc »

xienze wrote: post #46
tanilama wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can other countries trusy Trump administration at all at this point? It seems obvious, to deal with Trump, you have to prepare for the worst, since he is not predictable and tends to whatever he wants and whenever he desires.

Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war? Why is it OK for other countries to levy tariffs against us but not the other way around?

We levy plenty of tariffs on goods from other countries to protect local industries - on average ours are very slightly lower than places like the EU, but it’s like ~2.5% vs 3%, not 0% vs 30%, which seems to be your claim.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#52

Post by AlexandrB »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #36
dalore wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the whole competition mentality. If anything the US is in a competition against themselves. Everything seems to fight against helping your fellow man and all about gettings yours before anyone get's theirs. Healthcare for you fellow citizens? So controversial. Billions of dollars for war and killing others? Well that's ok then, let's spend that money no questions asked. You guys are at competition so much with e…

I don't think anybody is fighting against helping their fellow man. What they are angry about is having the big guns of government pointed at their heads while the rewards of their labor are siphoned away under the guise of charity. Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion.

> Once you help someone at another person's expense, you've crossed the border between charity and extortion.

You're talking about the subsidies for electric cars, right?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#53

Post by lostcolony »

xienze wrote: post #33
digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…

Interesting how despite a few other countries imposing tariffs on the US has still led to the US being the largest economy in the world.

It's not a question of 'fairness', it's a question of what will actually improve our economy. Nothing out there suggests tariffs will do that; in fact, all data points to just the opposite.

But you've basically ignored the OP in any case; do you have a response to the rather realistic and obvious projection that, given the nature of these, assembly jobs will move out of the US, since the fully assembled goods are not subject to tariffs, but the parts are?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#54

Post by bkor »

xienze wrote: post #46
tanilama wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can other countries trusy Trump administration at all at this point? It seems obvious, to deal with Trump, you have to prepare for the worst, since he is not predictable and tends to whatever he wants and whenever he desires.

Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war? Why is it OK for other countries to levy tariffs against us but not the other way around?

> Maybe get back to the original question and the reason Trump is interested in starting a trade war?

The reason for starting it was explained in completely different ways. Therefore it's not clear. It's both for security reasons as well as being easy to win as well as a supposed unfair imbalance. There's no consistency.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#55

Post by danieltillett »

megaman22 wrote: post #13
mtw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just wrong. If the cost of food doubles, then price of eating merely increases by small amount ?? Where did you get that fact? Any studies??

Your $25 steak dinner cost about $6 in foodstuffs. If a tariff raises the cost of that raw material to $8, it would be absurd for that entire meal to now cost $32. Much of the cost in restaurant prices is wages, and rent, and other overhead, not the actual food.

You are correct, but most restaurants just multiple the food cost by 4 to set the price. It is rather silly, but that is the way the industry works.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#56

Post by SamReidHughes »

gebruikersnaam wrote: post #45
IanDrake wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just hyperbole. The US is throwing its weight around for the first time since Reagan. Last time it worked out pretty well. Things have changed a lot since then with the rise of China and the EU. With the new big players in the world it’s time the US put on its big boy pants and renegotiated its place.

Bush put tariffs on steel in 2002 : 200000 jobs lost [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tarif...

How many jobs were lost from tariffs on labor, i.e. income and payroll taxes, which make employing people in the USA way more expensive?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#57

Post by kasey_junk »

xienze wrote: post #41
justin66 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you realize that eliminating all tariffs was never a US negotiating position, it was a random stupid thing the president said.

He wants reciprocity — you tariff me, I tariff you. It’s not just for grins. Get back to the original point: why is it acceptable for other countries to levy tariffs against the US but not the other way around?

The original point is that you are factually wrong. We already had tariffs on g7 countries.

The country we have the least trade barriers in the world is Canada. He started a trade war with them.

He ran on a platform of ending free trade agreements & protectionist policies. He’s enacting them. So it’s hard to take him serious when he suggests a free trade agreement with the g7 as a throwaway talking point.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#58

Post by struppi »

tanilama wrote: post #40
xienze wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. And yet other countries never seem to entertain the idea of both sides getting rid of all their tariffs, which is something Trump suggested at that G7 summit. Everyone goes nuts when the US suggests implementing tariffs against countries that already have tariffs against us. You gotta admit, the mess…

Can other countries trusy Trump administration at all at this point? It seems obvious, to deal with Trump, you have to prepare for the worst, since he is not predictable and tends to whatever he wants and whenever he desires.

Several European leaders have said publically (though in nicer words) that they don't trust America under this administration anymore.

e.g. Sebastian Kurz, a few days ago (1): "The American President is unconventional and American politics has become unpredictable. [...] This is a challenging geopolitical situation."

(1) German Interview - https://derstandard.at/2000081642343/Kanzler-Kurz-Wer-auf-Or...

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#59

Post by oblio »

maxerickson wrote: post #50
notheguyouthink wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about economy, so this is a question not.. a counter, but: > In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition. Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item…

They will raise prices regardless of their cost structure. The millions of unfilled manufacturing "jobs" are ~$14 an hour jobs that have significant upfront training requirements, so I doubt that onshoring lower skilled manufacturing is going to lead to much of a renaissance.

Even better, they will re-open the factory but because of better tech, instead of the 5000 employees from 20-30 years ago, they'll have just 100, many of which will be either remote or specialists who move in for this exact position. Not the 5000 local blue collar workers :)

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#60

Post by tomp »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #39
notheguyouthink wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about economy, so this is a question not.. a counter, but: > In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition. Is that entirely bad? The whole "US Made!" tagline of old stopped becoming possible because we couldn't charge wages low enough to compete with foreign dollars or foreign slave wages. Raising the cost of X item…

It will bring jobs back if there are enough people who can afford the local made product. And I wouldn't be sure about it, since in the last few years we have witnessed a thinning of the middle class, and the lower parts of the population might not afford to pay a premium because it's locally made. It's hard to go back from a race to the bottom

> if there are enough people who can afford the local made product

Eventually, it will keep more money in the country, meaning people will also be able to afford more (after all, they'll be being paid the higher, local wages now).

Compare with e.g. Switzerland, where most people have really high salary (by EU standards), and pretty much everything is really expensive, but because of the high salaries people can afford it.

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