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Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

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Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#261

Post by kbenson »

statictype wrote: post #243
wahern wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Anyone working at Tesla should be paranoid. Remember Enron? People invested deeply in something do criminally reprehensible things. Much more importantly, Musk made very concrete allegations, the truth of which should come to light in short order. I remember the insinuation SpaceX made during the 2016 incident, which was…

>There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Where do you get these stats? Is there some place where we can see how many people are shorting different stocks?

It's educated guessing, from analysts, according to what I've seen.[1] That said, it's not just a large short position, it's the largest (recently surpassing Apple shorts). Given that Apple's market cap is 15 times that of Tesla, that's quite a lot.

1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/04/15/tesla-has...

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#262

Post by FortNightLord »

jcranmer wrote: post #72
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #68

Everyone's reaction to this seems to be "He is crazy / paranoid". He gave very specific examples of things this person did. If you were someone with a large position against Telsa, or a competing manufacturer, or an oil / gas company finally picking things up after a terrible oil price collapse, yeah maybe it makes sense to go mess things up subtly enough that the company slips a little bit closer to bankruptcy? I'm…

From the standpoint of anyone trying to sabotage Tesla, the risk/reward ratio is extremely high. To claim that someone is trying to do so is an extraordinary claim, and we all know the saying about extraordinary claims...

Uh it says the guy admitted to it...and gave reasons...a confession is more than enough evidence.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#263

Post by orand »

statictype wrote: post #243
wahern wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Anyone working at Tesla should be paranoid. Remember Enron? People invested deeply in something do criminally reprehensible things. Much more importantly, Musk made very concrete allegations, the truth of which should come to light in short order. I remember the insinuation SpaceX made during the 2016 incident, which was…

>There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Where do you get these stats? Is there some place where we can see how many people are shorting different stocks?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/04/15/tesla-has...

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#264

Post by FortNightLord »

woodandsteel wrote: post #254

There's something really sad about all the people who are claiming that Musk has developed deep psychological problems in recent months. Do they really think these claims are going to stop people from buying his cars, or stop big companies from hiring SpaceX to launch their satellites into orbit? Or that it will cause the megafactory to be a total failure? I think what we are seeing here is speculators who have bet d…

You hit it on the head. It's either just not real, Musk is actually developing some issues, or people have learned to use bots (duh) to persuade public opinion (where have we heard this before??)

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#265

Post by adwn »

gamblor956 wrote: post #223
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Musk is going a bit too far in suggesting that other forces are involved unless he has credible evidence," It's not a bit too far since oil&gas companies and car companies have an established history of doing very evil things.

Oil and gas companies have a far easier, and legal way to destroy Tesla: they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in. That would immediately bankrupt Tesla. As it so happens, a number of the oil and gas companies have recognized that oil and gas are the past, and have transitioned to calling themselves "energy" companies and are spending billions on alternative energy industries.

> they could simply buy up its outstanding debt and call it in

They could try to buy it up, and they might succeed, but they can't call in the debt willy-nilly before it matures.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#266

Post by vesrah »

statictype wrote: post #243
wahern wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Anyone working at Tesla should be paranoid. Remember Enron? People invested deeply in something do criminally reprehensible things. Much more importantly, Musk made very concrete allegations, the truth of which should come to light in short order. I remember the insinuation SpaceX made during the 2016 incident, which was…

>There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Where do you get these stats? Is there some place where we can see how many people are shorting different stocks?

Look up a stock on WSJ, for example: https://quotes.wsj.com/TSLA

Note 'Shares Sold Short', multiply by value of stock.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#267

Post by orand »

jshaqaw wrote: post #124
anonu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't suggest this to be paranoia. It's simply reality. Wall Street profits from the stock cratering right now. Its not unfathomable that some hedge fund would go to extreme lengths to embed a mole into the Tesla team to cause sabotage. There's a (mediocre) documentary on Netflix about Bill Ackman's famous Herbalife short. In there they detail the hundreds of $1000 spent just defending his short position through…

Friend, I work in hedge funds. This isn’t Billions. Musk going over the deep end far more plausible than a hedge fund saboteur.

This _is_ billions. $10.7 billion.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/04/15/tesla-has...

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#268

Post by sjg007 »

This doesn't make sense. If there is/was a saboteur then you would expect Musk to stay quiet until after a criminal investigation. Especially if there are alleged co-conspirators. Electric cars are a given now. The tech is proven. The AI autopilot is still open but that's a NTSB issue.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#269

Post by mmjaa »

neotek wrote: post #201
manicdee wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a huckster he’s doing a damn good job of fake shipping fake cars to fake customers who fake drive them in fake public. Excellent scam, would invest again.

Don't be so disingenuous. Nobody is claiming the cars don't exist, the point is that Musk continuously makes insane, overreaching predictions that almost never come to pass, like the ludicrous "three months maybe, six months definitely" fully autonomous driving nonsense, or promises that Model 3 production will be on track for x units per month when the actual numbers are half that, and so on. This is so typical of a…

You seem too easily persuaded that Elon Musk is a con man.

Have you taken into account the massive empire he has already built - if he were truly as nefarious as you seem to imply, its hardly likely that he would've been able to effectively build rockets that land themselves, cars that drive themselves, alternatives to the oil-addiction we're all suffering under, etc.

I mean, put some balance in your argument: What has Musk done right, in your opinion? Anything at all?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#270

Post by rorykoehler »

pwinnski wrote: post #151
rplst8 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the argument "you sound like a conspiracy theorist" doesn't hold water any more.

Is the logic here that because some conspiracy theories have turned out to be true, all conspiracy theories are likely true? That seems... unwise.

I think what they meant was that the label "conspiracy theory" is often used to discredit the truth, At this stage we have so many examples of conspiracy theories turning out to be straight up conspiracies that you would be unwise to not look further for yourself when you hear someone roll-out the conspiracy theory label.
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