Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#211

Post by not_kurt_godel » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:48 AM UTC

timoth3y wrote: post #180

This isn't good. I mean, there may well be saboteurs in Tesla. That's not my issue. What worries me is that Musk sent out a general email and announced this to the world. Why is that worrying? Whether it is Trump's "Deep State", Stalin's "wreckers", shadow governments, or Freemasons. Any time a leader starts publically pointing to invisible actors and demanding they be investigated and stopped, something is about to…

How is this an unseen and irrational force? It is a seen force - assuming we trust Musk in his assertion that a specific saboteur was identified and confessed to their actions, which I personally do given his overall track record - and it is a rational force given both immediate motivations (revenge for lack of promotion) and general motivations (massive extensively-documented well-funded multi-decade effort by the fossil fuel industry to thwart adoption of alternative energy). On top of that, none of this was public by virtue of it being a leaked internal email.

> I mean, there may well be saboteurs in Tesla. That's not my issue.

Yes, but your issue is apparently issuing proclamations about responses to saboteurs. Your stance on said issue holds little ground when you either seemingly can't be bothered to look at the basic facts or mischaracterize them to fit an agenda. So, which is it? Did you not read the article or are you being deliberately misleading?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#212

Post by fzeroracer » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:49 AM UTC

Denzel wrote: post #157

fzeroracer wrote: post #121

Elon Musk has built up a really uncomfortable cult of personality in my opinion and I think it results in an incredibly horrendous environment to work in. The way he's been behaving over the past few weeks (incl. his since-deleted reference to a cult site) does not exactly help his credibility when he's making broad claims like this. He's been blaming everyone else but himself for every single little mistake and I ca…

> He's been blaming everyone else but himself for every single little mistake Really? I guess you glossed over him personally accepting responsibility for pushing Model X's falcon wing doors even though it was a mistake; and personally accepting responsibility for automating too much of the Model 3's assembly line which has caused massive delays. And those are just the two examples that spring to mind of him apologiz…

Where was that personal responsibility when he started slinging mud at the media for reporting on the issues his company has been very publicly going through? Or when he started insulting people in the Tesla earnings call? Or during the fatal autopilot crash?

Or him linking to, again, a literal cult website and calling it good journalism.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#213

Post by avs733 » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:49 AM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #194

avs733 wrote: post #188

I'm sorry but Musk's email is ridiculous and unprofessional, and the defenses here are extremely concerning. By ArsTechnica's count this is the 5th fire in the plant. 5th. That's insane. Report after report is that things continue to not go well and the email sent out reeks of paranoia and combined with other comments made recently are quite clearly dishonest. They aren't failing at the details of ramping a manufactu…

> Tesla's greatest enemy at this point is the cult of Elon Musk, and the cult's leader, Elon Musk. Huh, well, given that, I strongly suggest you short TSLA, which would be a sure thing, right?

The best counter argument you have is sarcasm?

They had their 5th body shop fire yesterday. Immediately they implied the saboteur was to blame. What is more realistic

I don't short TSLA, I don't hold TSLA stock or options. I don't want to be involved with it in anyway shape or form.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#214

Post by geofft » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:51 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #160

colechristensen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't strike me as paranoia. Thinking that industrial espionage doesn't happen seems naive. What they have is an admitted saboteur and code that exports data to third parties. It quacks like a duck. A disgruntled employee succumbed to or sought out people who wished to do harm to Tesla. There's plenty of evidence of similar things happening. (edit to fix words) If you work in the defense industry you get things…

Great comment, but I’m not sure what events you’re referring to when you say: > American companies have overthrown governments to benefit their business Care to elaborate?

This is how Hawaii went from an independent kingdom trading with the US to a territory (and then a state).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Kingdom_of_Ha...

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#215

Post by chillee » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:53 AM UTC

davidgay wrote: post #191

noobermin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they pushed it without asking anyone?

Then the system that allowed them to do so is badly designed.

At Facebook, you could alter code even after somebody had given the OK for code review. I know some people specifically kept some small commits open after being approved, just so they could quickly make changes without needing approval if they ever needed to.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#216

Post by RunawayGalaxy » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:54 AM UTC

supergirl wrote: post #56

twodave wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the company’s responsibility to rehabilitate someone over probably-criminal action? I agree that promoting someone unstable enough to commit sabotaging changes to a company would be the wrong move. It’s not like he is forcing anyone to work there.

I’m not saying he should be promoted now or before. I’m saying company culture is to blame for this or at least should be the first thing to review instead of blaming the employee immediately. what if the next person that doesn’t get promoted suicides?

There are fewer promotions than people who want promotions at virtually every company. The vast majority of people don't behave criminally out of spite when they are passed over. At what point does personal responsibility play a role in a person's actions? I'm genuinely curious. If the culture is the first thing that should be reviewed, that seems to imply that it is more to blame than the individual.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#217

Post by dnomad » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:56 AM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #192

fzeroracer wrote: post #121

Elon Musk has built up a really uncomfortable cult of personality in my opinion and I think it results in an incredibly horrendous environment to work in. The way he's been behaving over the past few weeks (incl. his since-deleted reference to a cult site) does not exactly help his credibility when he's making broad claims like this. He's been blaming everyone else but himself for every single little mistake and I ca…

> blaming everyone else but himself for every single little mistake Citation needed

Of course none of this ever happened. Musk has repeatedly accepted responsibility for many of the problems at Tesla around excessive automation. But try to understand the sort of psychology at work when somebody projects a fantasy onto a figure like Musk. In this thread alone we have people attributing quotes to Musk that he never said ("unfair", "witch hunt") and others insisting Musk is paranoid in response to finding an actual saboteur. Frankly, Musk isn't a real person to these people, he's a puppet trapped in some made up morality play.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#218

Post by paulcole » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:58 AM UTC

naikrovek wrote: post #47

coldnose wrote: post #19

I concede it's possible that saboteurs are operating within Tesla, but lashing out at invisible enemies sends a strong "crazy" signal. Elon has been sending a lot of crazy signals lately...

Well the email said that the guy admitted to it, and did it because he was denied a promotion. Not so invisible.

Is there any confirmation of the admission besides Elon just saying it?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#219

Post by jccooper » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:59 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #70

I have no problem believing that a disgruntled employee sabotaged part of the production line. But I do have a problem believing that all of the problems since the Model 3 started production were caused by sabotage. I also have no problem believing that the disgruntled employee simply wanted to take revenge by sabotaging his/her employer -- that's not uncommon, and it should not be difficult to prove if it really hap…

> But I do have a problem believing that all of the problems since the Model 3 started production were caused by sabotage.

So, uh, where exactly is that said? In the email, or anywhere for that matter? On my monitor, the email doesn't claim any influence on Model 3 production problems, much less "all".

> suggesting that other forces are involved

"Investigation" and "be extremely vigilant" are a mite different from "suggesting".

You might want to consider talking about what is actually written.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#220

Post by bsenftner » Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 5:00 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #160

colechristensen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't strike me as paranoia. Thinking that industrial espionage doesn't happen seems naive. What they have is an admitted saboteur and code that exports data to third parties. It quacks like a duck. A disgruntled employee succumbed to or sought out people who wished to do harm to Tesla. There's plenty of evidence of similar things happening. (edit to fix words) If you work in the defense industry you get things…

Great comment, but I’m not sure what events you’re referring to when you say: > American companies have overthrown governments to benefit their business Care to elaborate?

There's a CIA guy who had a career setting up governments, and he published his diary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...