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China is winning the global tech race

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Re: China is winning the global tech race

#81

Post by AnimalMuppet »

coldtea wrote: post #77
corporateslaver wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over Half of the Japanese stock market is owned by the government bank. The whole economy is a shell propped up by quantitative easing financial policies. Great drones. We have google, they have cheap manufacture produced drones. I keep hearing “China is coming”, “they will have more”, .... It never comes to fruition. That have a massive population supported by manufacturing wages that will all lose jobs when automat…

> Over Half of the Japanese stock market is owned by the government bank. The whole economy is a shell propped up by quantitative easing financial policies. Well, different countries use different strategies. Half of the US economy is based upon the country's military might, and (through it) imposing favorable deals, bullying, controlling oil and trade routes, IP laws and so on (plus "quantitative easing financial po…

> Half of the US economy is based upon the country's military might, and (through it) imposing favorable deals, bullying, controlling oil and trade routes, IP laws and so on (plus "quantitative easing financial policies" and trillion dollar bailouts, subsidies and handouts to Detroit and co). I'll take Japan's "quantitative easing financial policies" any day...

Bluntly, this is BS. A bit of the US economy, yes. Half? Not even close. But you seem to have an ax you want to grind with respect to the US, and reality would not serve you as well as hyperbole.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#82

Post by mc32 »

mywittyname wrote: post #71
mc32 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a United Fruit model of economic investing which resulted in the pejorative banana republic and resulting cries of American Imperialism, and subsequent loss in economic growth as AmCos pulled out due to instability. Wonder if they can avoid a similar fate. Maybe people are wiser on both sides, one can hope.

My impression is that much of this "instability" was largely the result of American military/intelligence intervention that came in response to the local government seizure and nationalization of these industries.

Superficially maybe. My impression is most of the instability was countries with govts with too weak an effort to transition from an agricultural society to a goods and services centered one, this resulted in an ill advised call for land redistribution and other unrest rather than making education necessary for all kids. Even now many illegal manual labor immigrants to the US lack basic education.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#83

Post by coldtea »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #81
coldtea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over Half of the Japanese stock market is owned by the government bank. The whole economy is a shell propped up by quantitative easing financial policies. Well, different countries use different strategies. Half of the US economy is based upon the country's military might, and (through it) imposing favorable deals, bullying, controlling oil and trade routes, IP laws and so on (plus "quantitative easing financial po…

> Half of the US economy is based upon the country's military might, and (through it) imposing favorable deals, bullying, controlling oil and trade routes, IP laws and so on (plus "quantitative easing financial policies" and trillion dollar bailouts, subsidies and handouts to Detroit and co). I'll take Japan's "quantitative easing financial policies" any day... Bluntly, this is BS. A bit of the US economy, yes. Half?…

>Bluntly, this is BS. A bit of the US economy, yes. Half? Not even close.

I'm not talking directly -- like the arms industry and the oil industry and so on. I'm talking about the cascading effect that pumps up and propels the rest.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#84

Post by AnimalMuppet »

coldtea wrote: post #83
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Half of the US economy is based upon the country's military might, and (through it) imposing favorable deals, bullying, controlling oil and trade routes, IP laws and so on (plus "quantitative easing financial policies" and trillion dollar bailouts, subsidies and handouts to Detroit and co). I'll take Japan's "quantitative easing financial policies" any day... Bluntly, this is BS. A bit of the US economy, yes. Half?…

> Bluntly, this is BS. A bit of the US economy, yes. Half? Not even close. I'm not talking directly -- like the arms industry and the oil industry and so on. I'm talking about the cascading effect that pumps up and propels the rest.

And I still say it's BS. Or, to be more charitable, excessive hyperbole.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#85

Post by mistermann »

KarlRutnick wrote: post #70
mistermann wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's odd how some people can clearly see (and acknowledge) these things, while others seem literally unable to see them, almost as if they have some sort of a psychological filter hiding portions of the full spectrum of reality. I wonder if I suffer from the same thing, but different portions of the spectrum. I find it an interesting and useful way in which to observe the world and disagreements between peop…

It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests. China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done. But in the case of China they don't run around toppling government and the countries do get general infrastructure while the west usually just built the bare minimum to get the resources out. Yes its imperialism bu…

> It's kinda funny how Americans still thinks US is doing shit to help anyone else besides themselves and their business interests.

It depends on what you mean by that statement I suppose. It sounds like you are of the opinion that literally every single foreign aid initiative the United States of America undertakes is, at it's core, entirely (not partially, as I would suspect the case to be, but entirely) for the purposes of advancing the interests of American businesses.

Is that a more or less proper characterization of what you've said, or have I misunderstood?

And if it is proper, how might you have come to know this? I mean, for the sake of argument let's assume it's true - if this what they were really up to, I'd think most of the corresponding proof would be known only to a fairly select group of trustworthy insiders. How would you have found out these details?

This story doesn't seem to add up, but maybe I'm missing something?

> China is now doing the same thing the west/ImF/world Bank have always done.

The exact same thing, or something similar?

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#86

Post by mistermann »

coldtea wrote: post #67
mistermann wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking your last sentence literally, is that actually your honest assessment of this dispute, in its entirety?

My actually assessment of this dispute is even worse.

"Now they insist nobody currently lower than them should use the ladder."

How might you know this though? No one has said anything out loud even remotely comparable to this, so how might have you formed this conclusion? What information source are you using?

I'd be quite interested to hear your actual full assessment if you have the time.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#87

Post by peterashford »

rayiner wrote: post #39
chii wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries how is the chinese doing any different than what the USA did/might've done with foreign aid and other strings attached loans? In the end, it's a form of empire building.

That's a breathtakingly ignorant assertion. The "strings attached" to U.S. foreign aid are there to benefit the country being helped, not the U.S. They are things like economic reforms and measures to limit corruption. There is definitely an ideology behind it, and its paternalistic, but it's not empire building. It's more like evangelical Christianity--the belief that we can uplift people not only by giving aid, but…

Breathtakingly ignorant? Wow. I have seen foreign aid in the third world and a lot of it is pretty self serving from the first world (including the US). Examples: US aid to fund a cure for malaria except they were only interested in solutions that would work as short term protection for the US military, not long term protection for the people actually suffering from chronic malaria. The WHO (in this case pushed by individual Americans) pushing locals to switch a national park over to mining interests resulting in multinationals coming in, screwing the environment and taking all the profits. I think your dad might have been viewing the world through ideological glasses.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#88

Post by ksk »

rayiner wrote: post #39
chii wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries how is the chinese doing any different than what the USA did/might've done with foreign aid and other strings attached loans? In the end, it's a form of empire building.

That's a breathtakingly ignorant assertion. The "strings attached" to U.S. foreign aid are there to benefit the country being helped, not the U.S. They are things like economic reforms and measures to limit corruption. There is definitely an ideology behind it, and its paternalistic, but it's not empire building. It's more like evangelical Christianity--the belief that we can uplift people not only by giving aid, but…

>It's more like evangelical Christianity--the belief that we can uplift people not only by giving aid, but by teaching them to live and govern themselves like we do.

That sort of comparison is going to only get you into trouble. Foreign aid is very often tied to foreign policy, especially security policies like maintaining bases, to keep "friendly" regimes in power, to "tied" aid, etc.

Certainly, not everything is Machiavellian about it, and ofcource people recognize the huge benefits and impact it has had in uplifting poor people, lets also not forget that there is a whole lotta grey in there.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#89

Post by sonnyblarney »

the-dude wrote: post #37
sonnyblarney wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does nobody outside of China use Chinese tech? This is a paradox that flies in the face of all the 'great news' coming from China. In HK, nobody uses Baidu, they use Google. The article is misleading because the size of these 'new industries' like 'car sharing' is going to be a function of the size of the economy, so really, it's like measuring the size of the banking sector ... it will be a % of the economy…

Ehhh, Rigol is a popular oscilloscope brand with non-professionals. Rigol is Chinese. https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/1000z... edit: and I should add, I think they redefined the market somewhat.

Touché. Kind of. I don't doubt there are things here and there, but if what an HN knowledgeable can come up with is 'Oscilloscopes' ... well then you might have made my point for me.

I am perplexed by the lack of Chinese tech that we use and I think there must be some reasoning behind that.

Our markets are 'mostly open'.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#90

Post by candiodari »

coldtea wrote: post #78
candiodari wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have paid attention in history class. When the colonies, primarily the US, started doing better than the old European countries ... what happened ? And yes, immigrants in the US beat quite a few traditional industries at their own game, under rules set by people trying to sabotage them. Well done, right ? So what happened ... Peace, love and prosperity ? Or something else ?

> When the colonies, primarily the US, started doing better than the old European countries ... what happened? Nothing much. There were 2 world wars that finished the old European countries, and the US took over the warmongering world leader game, and the colonialism (as neo-colonialism this time). > And yes, immigrants in the US beat quite a few traditional industries at their own game, under rules set by people try…

What I mean is early US history. When the colonies' industries started growing and outperforming the home industries, the governments of Europe started systematically sabotaging the American (then not-quite-yet-American of course) businesses, eventually using the police and even army to use direct violence against them.

Incumbents really don't react well to upstarts even just performing decently.

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