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China is winning the global tech race

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Re: China is winning the global tech race

#31

Post by [deleted] »

opportune wrote: post #24
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe needs to build its own tech ecosystem instead of being a resource hub and market for US companies. There were some sense in the French driving Peugeot, the Germans VW and the Americans Ford, instead of all driving a generic car from a distant silicon valley company far away from local market and value chain.

I don’t really understand how Europe has struggled so much. Is it due to a lack of investors? Brain drain or some comparative lack of talent (I doubt it)? Regulations (also doubt it)? Cultural differences? Difficult domestic market?

[deleted]

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#32

Post by mc32 »

vthallam wrote: post #28

I know this article is more about tech companies, but China is winning everywhere. They have started a very ambitious OBOR to connect Europe, Africa and Asia. The Chinese investments in Europe is just mind boggling [0] and the infrastructure projects by the Chinese Govt are spread across the whole Asia, Africa and Europe. Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries, the Chinese lo…

Kind of a United Fruit model of economic investing which resulted in the pejorative banana republic and resulting cries of American Imperialism, and subsequent loss in economic growth as AmCos pulled out due to instability.

Wonder if they can avoid a similar fate. Maybe people are wiser on both sides, one can hope.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#33

Post by chii »

vthallam wrote: post #28

I know this article is more about tech companies, but China is winning everywhere. They have started a very ambitious OBOR to connect Europe, Africa and Asia. The Chinese investments in Europe is just mind boggling [0] and the infrastructure projects by the Chinese Govt are spread across the whole Asia, Africa and Europe. Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries, the Chinese lo…

> Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries

how is the chinese doing any different than what the USA did/might've done with foreign aid and other strings attached loans? In the end, it's a form of empire building.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#34

Post by chii »

bottomhollow wrote: post #15

According to the article, China is winning because it has more unicorns than others in > 10 billion: 11 are Chinese vs 6 are American. This is just VC pumping its own game. Massively overvalued Chinese startups fueled by unsustainable shadow debt taking isn't a recipe for success. "China’s campaign against its US$10 trillion shadow banking industry has choked off refinancing for the weaker borrowers". let that sink i…

> unsustainable shadow debt

i keep hearing this term, but what does shadow debt mean?

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#35

Post by bob_theslob646 »

chii wrote: post #33
vthallam wrote: post #28

I know this article is more about tech companies, but China is winning everywhere. They have started a very ambitious OBOR to connect Europe, Africa and Asia. The Chinese investments in Europe is just mind boggling [0] and the infrastructure projects by the Chinese Govt are spread across the whole Asia, Africa and Europe. Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries, the Chinese lo…

> Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries how is the chinese doing any different than what the USA did/might've done with foreign aid and other strings attached loans? In the end, it's a form of empire building.

The difference is that know the rest of the world is aware of it it whereas in the past, they were not as aware.

I know that may not be the answer you want to hear but " image " is huge in China.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#36

Post by chii »

ajiang wrote: post #19
corporateslaver wrote: post #10

This is propaganda. China is mostly an uneducated factory nation who will be crushed by automation. Articles like this are great for clicks on a website. Edit: which Chinese tech companies are actually dominant? All of them are copies of American tech companies propped up by their government. Where is the market penetration into the USA? Where is the competition? There is none.

Author is Sequoia's Michael Moritz who has a decent amount of credibility here. I think his last few articles on China have been more around warning US tech companies not to get complacent, rather than trying to convince people that China is a tech holy land. As for the part about being an uneducated factory nation, the latest PISA findings from 2015 would have China scoring higher than the US on math (10th vs. 25th)…

> Sequoia's Michael Moritz who has a decent amount of credibility

but you have to also think whether he's biased in wanting to push the view that the next big tech hub is in China, because he's invested in the region. Making the hype machine so that when time comes to exit, there's plenty of doofus who will believe the hype and buy into the market.

it's very hard to know what to believe, and even more effort to do research. Most people won't be doing it, so it's an effective method to generate hype.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#37

Post by the-dude »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #9
baybal2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sequoia Capital. Rephrasing: Chinese sock market is more plump, and more crazy than American. If you are in a business peddling BS stocks, there is no better market. I'm extremely sorry for use of vulgarities there, but I know of no other words in English language to characterise that. On other hand... China's tech scene beats the silicon valley even without any stock market backing. And it is its beauty. China is p…

Then why does nobody outside of China use Chinese tech? This is a paradox that flies in the face of all the 'great news' coming from China. In HK, nobody uses Baidu, they use Google. The article is misleading because the size of these 'new industries' like 'car sharing' is going to be a function of the size of the economy, so really, it's like measuring the size of the banking sector ... it will be a % of the economy…

Ehhh, Rigol is a popular oscilloscope brand with non-professionals. Rigol is Chinese.

https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/1000z...

edit: and I should add, I think they redefined the market somewhat.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#38

Post by thablackbull »

corporateslaver wrote: post #10

This is propaganda. China is mostly an uneducated factory nation who will be crushed by automation. Articles like this are great for clicks on a website. Edit: which Chinese tech companies are actually dominant? All of them are copies of American tech companies propped up by their government. Where is the market penetration into the USA? Where is the competition? There is none.

> Articles like this are great for clicks on a website.

That may be true, but I do find it refreshing over the thousands of articles claiming that China would collapse over the past few decades (and yet, somehow these experts failed to predict the AFC, GFC, dot-com bubble,...). Surely you consider those click-bait as well.

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#39

Post by rayiner »

chii wrote: post #33
vthallam wrote: post #28

I know this article is more about tech companies, but China is winning everywhere. They have started a very ambitious OBOR to connect Europe, Africa and Asia. The Chinese investments in Europe is just mind boggling [0] and the infrastructure projects by the Chinese Govt are spread across the whole Asia, Africa and Europe. Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries, the Chinese lo…

> Unlike the USA which offers support and aid by offering money to other countries how is the chinese doing any different than what the USA did/might've done with foreign aid and other strings attached loans? In the end, it's a form of empire building.

That's a breathtakingly ignorant assertion. The "strings attached" to U.S. foreign aid are there to benefit the country being helped, not the U.S. They are things like economic reforms and measures to limit corruption. There is definitely an ideology behind it, and its paternalistic, but it's not empire building. It's more like evangelical Christianity--the belief that we can uplift people not only by giving aid, but by teaching them to live and govern themselves like we do.

(Source: my dad spent his career doing USAID work; grew up surrounded by USAID, World Bank, etc., folks.)

Re: China is winning the global tech race

#40

Post by anthonybennis »

opportune wrote: post #24
l5870uoo9y wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe needs to build its own tech ecosystem instead of being a resource hub and market for US companies. There were some sense in the French driving Peugeot, the Germans VW and the Americans Ford, instead of all driving a generic car from a distant silicon valley company far away from local market and value chain.

I don’t really understand how Europe has struggled so much. Is it due to a lack of investors? Brain drain or some comparative lack of talent (I doubt it)? Regulations (also doubt it)? Cultural differences? Difficult domestic market?

It's hard to understand. On paper, it has all the ingredients. Highly educated rich market. The EU created a 500 million common market which should allow European companies to scale. SAP, Spotify, Philips, ASOS, Skyscanner and even Nokia/Skype before take overs were/are tech success stories. But looking at the largest companies by revenue in Europe you see they are dominated by 20th century largely traditional industries (oil, engineering, food). Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_European_compa...
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