Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

wpri.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 268 posts

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#141

Post by Benjammer »

dpark wrote: post #117
Benjammer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This makes no sense. Welcome to the world of government services, where it's literally, by definition, a different place than the capitalist business world. >because Apple enables a feature that helps 911, they should cover he costs of 911 service. Yes, there are services where our society has decided that the public government is more appropriate to manage that service, generally because competition motives would c…

This has nothing to with government services and everything to do with the fact that you are describing a situation that is nonsensical. > If Apple is going to wade into one of these areas, they need to play by the rules of that public service, they can't just treat it like another business metric to compete with. Apple is not attempting to get in the business of running 911 call centers. They're sending an extra bit…

>Why do imagine Bumblefuck, Arkansas is looking at New York City's 911 costs instead of their own?

Because I work in police software tech, and this is how they think, as nonsensical as it is.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#142

Post by jonknee »

craftyguy wrote: post #3

> The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 911 calling centers will be able to see the data during the call, and none of it can be used for non-emergency purposes, according to Apple. How long until this information is available to law enforcement?

> How long until this information is available to law enforcement?

Well in this case that's entirely the point, people are calling law enforcement. But if you were concerned that someone could just pull up your location at any time, their system only gets your location data when you call 911:

https://info.rapidsos.com/blog/bringing-apple-device-locatio...

> When this feature is made available later this year in an iOS software update, Apple phones will send fast and accurate device location to the NG911 Clearinghouse when a user dials 9-1-1.

That said, law enforcement can already look up where your phone is based on tower triangulation. This is just about getting more detailed information to first responders more quickly.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#143

Post by jonknee »

Rjevski wrote: post #28
abtinf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what circumstances would you want to contact 911 but not reveal your location?

There might be cases where a criminal would want to call 911 on a victim (possibly collateral damage of their crime). Not saying this happens, but the only way it could happen is if the guy calling has some guarantee of not being identified. I'd much prefer having a criminal get away and saving a life thanks to the 911 call than him getting away and letting someone die because he had no way to call 911 anonymously wi…

I think that hypothetical is rare enough of an event that the overwhelming likelihood is more people turn it off without knowing the implications and then are unable to share their location when they are in an emergency.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#144

Post by jonknee »

josefresco wrote: post #78
ForrestN wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the text you quoted is accurate, the data is only accessible to emergency calling centers, so no, unless they are lying neither company can see your location. Perhaps it’s encrypted, a bit like sending an iMessage to the 9/11 dispatcher, or some other means of anonymization is used.

the data is only accessible to emergency calling centers This same argument is use to justify why we shouldn't allow encryption back doors. The reasons include: access will leak, law enforcement cannot be trusted. I don't see anything in this announcement that addresses those concerns.

The location is also only sent during the 911 call, so if you don't dial 911 your location isn't in the database and the security of the database doesn't matter, your location is "safe".

https://info.rapidsos.com/blog/bringing-apple-device-locatio...

> When this feature is made available later this year in an iOS software update, Apple phones will send fast and accurate device location to the NG911 Clearinghouse when a user dials 9-1-1.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#145

Post by balabaster »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #127
magduf wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because it doesn't work just as well, because everyone comes up with different words. The NATO alphabet isn't just used by NATO, it's used worldwide by civil and commercial aviation personnel (pilots & ATC). There's a reason for this: these words were carefully selected because they're unique and won't be confused with other words. It absolutely should be taught in school; it's not hard at all, and everyone has p…

It could be taught in preschools along with simple things like basic gun safety, swimming pool safety, and how to avoid perverts. Unfortunately all of these things are educational luxuries for the rare kid with parents that take the time to teach them to their kids. It seems like intelligent people could put together a laundry list of simple, easy-to-teach things along these lines that could be taught in schools for…

Taught in preschools... like basic gun safety :D

Why does this seem like it should be wrong? XD

I'm now imagining 5 year olds field stripping, cleaning and re-assembling semi-automatic rifles like miniature Marine snipers, hahahaha.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#146

Post by balabaster »

JackCh wrote: post #126
kbenson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5. So, the solution to not wanting to feel self conscious while saying decidedly simple and inoffensive words, and for task simple enough that people could probably be given a simple sentence or two instruction (choose a word that doesn't sound like another one) and could come up with valid examples (li…

If you've got more than two braincells to rub together and are communicating with an ignorant listener , the off-the-cuff improvised toddler friendly vocabulary version probably works well enough for you. The problem is when an improvised phonetic alphabet is being used because the speaker doesn't know a standardized phonetic alphabet. These people almost never take care to pick words that don't sound like other word…

I learned it in an afternoon as a small child watching Dukes of Hazzard sometime between the ages of 4 and 10, along with how to jump my car over a river, how to run 'shine, escape from the law and be a good ol' boy... it's amazing what useful skills we learned from 80s kids shows :P

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#147

Post by dang »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

When you get to the stage of concrete work on this, please email us at hn@ycombinator.com and maybe we can arrange an AMA-like discussion about it. I think the community would likely find that interesting.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#148

Post by core-questions »

detaro wrote: post #94
core-questions wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say 911 there got staffed up and got resources to handle the call volume. Would this actually translate to better emergency services response? One assumes they're also all busy, all the time, no?

High-priority call that makes it through to a dispatcher at least has a chance to be "triaged" and responders from something less urgent pulled for it?

Mmm, good point. Still, I'd bet that the money would be better spent beefing up policing / emergency service efforts instead of giving them even more work that they'll never get to.

That said, I'd never feel safe living somewhere where 911 didn't answer immediately and have an average response time within a few minutes.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#149

Post by nashashmi »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

https://www.fastcompany.com/40475242/how-a-hacker-helped-the...

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#150

Post by Aloha »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #120
bungie4 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. But the issue is a financial one, not a technological one. All manner of things can be accomplished at the origin. But all the other links in the chain must have access to the companion technology (read money). This is just not available on a widespread basis. Then, you have issues of adoption, and, competing services and standards. We are experiencing this very thing with regards to Fire dispatch, with all mann…

I’d love to talk more, if you can. My email in my profile. As stated in a comment above, I think that this should be a global nonprofit. Mapping tools should be made for free to emergency responders. That’s one way to go around the financial question.

There is a rather sizable and mature industry providing mapping products for first responders.
Post reply on HN