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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#121

Post by Waterluvian »

balabaster wrote: post #81
Waterluvian wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I regularly test myself when bored while driving to verbalize where I am. "Highway 401 East.. uhh I think I passed an exit for Guelph a while ago? I don't see a marker at the moment." Off topic: if you're often bored while driving, learn the NATO phonetic alphabet using license plates around you. It helps me four or five times a year when reading off things to people in customer service. The beauty of it is tha…

Do you know how many times I use the phonetic alphabet and then have to simplify even more because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't understand it? :D F for what? S? F is now Frank and S is now Sugar, because Foxtrot and Sierra often just get "was that s or f? What is Soxtrot?" it's ridiculous. I think everyone should be taught the NATO phonetic alphabet in school. When I'm talking to someone on the ph…

I feared this but have yet to experience it being a problem. Maybe the people I'm talking to deal with reading off letters all day.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#122

Post by dpark »

genericone wrote: post #115
dpark wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't grasp this logic. Apple builds a feature to help with 911 services so they should fund 911 services? Apple also implemented Amber Alert support. Should they fund the Amber Alert system, too? Aren't emergency services pretty clearly the government's job? You already pay a fee on your cell bill specifically to cover the cost of 911 services to your local and state governments.

Let us not forget what happened when the convenience of plastics hit the markets, the trash collection sector of the government was inundated with material that it never had to deal with before, in quantities that the developed countries of the world now regret. City and county trash, which is considered the government's job, was utterly and forever ruined by plastic. Consumers loved plastics, stores loved plastics,…

> "In order to avoid regulation and the banning of plastic products they used, the beverage and packaging industry pushed municipal recycling programs."

This is tangential, but I'm not sure I buy this. It's not as if glass, cardboard, paper, and metal containers were evaporating into thin air. Pre-recycling, these were also all headed to landfills with few exceptions (e.g. glass Coke bottles).

> Apple isn't doing the same thing, because they aren't literally trashing the world, this 911 feature does not create anywhere near such a negative externality, but to say that "we already pay our government for this" doesn't mean that the the corporation is off the hook, "we did our part, now you handle the 99% of effort and costs of getting this feature we are promoting to work, oh and you will need to assume the blame if and when things don't work". I don't think it should work that way...

As you noted, this situation is far different. It creates no negative externality, because call centers can simply not upgrade and there is no change for them. Or they can upgrade and realistically that will involve paying a fee and they'll be done. The call centers are not bearing "99% of the effort and costs".

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#123

Post by dpark »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #118
dpark wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Apple builds a feature that could potentially save lives. But they are lacking "corporate responsibility" because they aren't also directly funding emergency call center upgrades nationwide. This viewpoint makes me sad. It's like someone built a house for a homeless family and then they get criticized for not covering the cost of utilities for the lifetime of the house.

> This viewpoint makes me sad. It's like someone built a house for a homeless family and then they get criticized for not covering the cost of utilities for the lifetime of the house. Likewise, I see it as handing someone a good or service they desperately need with no thought to the recurring costs involved. Just because you believe you've done a good deed doesn't mean you've necessarily helped (see food aid in Afri…

Call centers can elect not to opt into this if the costs are high. It's not as if Apple has done anything to degrade the existing emergency service process.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#124

Post by magduf »

kbenson wrote: post #92
balabaster wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know how many times I use the phonetic alphabet and then have to simplify even more because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't understand it? :D F for what? S? F is now Frank and S is now Sugar, because Foxtrot and Sierra often just get "was that s or f? What is Soxtrot?" it's ridiculous. I think everyone should be taught the NATO phonetic alphabet in school. When I'm talking to someone on the ph…

> When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5. So, the solution to not wanting to feel self conscious while saying decidedly simple and inoffensive words, and for task simple enough that people could probably be given a simple sentence or two instruction (choose a word that doesn't sound like another one) and could come up with valid examples (li…

No, because it doesn't work just as well, because everyone comes up with different words.

The NATO alphabet isn't just used by NATO, it's used worldwide by civil and commercial aviation personnel (pilots & ATC). There's a reason for this: these words were carefully selected because they're unique and won't be confused with other words.

It absolutely should be taught in school; it's not hard at all, and everyone has problems spelling words out on noisy communication channels (like cellphones).

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#125

Post by beenBoutIT »

nxc18 wrote: post #89
VonGuard wrote: post #63

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

This is fucked. You should never have to wait for a 911 call to be answered. Our society needs to do better. Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#126

Post by JackCh »

kbenson wrote: post #92
balabaster wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know how many times I use the phonetic alphabet and then have to simplify even more because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't understand it? :D F for what? S? F is now Frank and S is now Sugar, because Foxtrot and Sierra often just get "was that s or f? What is Soxtrot?" it's ridiculous. I think everyone should be taught the NATO phonetic alphabet in school. When I'm talking to someone on the ph…

> When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5. So, the solution to not wanting to feel self conscious while saying decidedly simple and inoffensive words, and for task simple enough that people could probably be given a simple sentence or two instruction (choose a word that doesn't sound like another one) and could come up with valid examples (li…

If you've got more than two braincells to rub together and are communicating with an ignorant listener, the off-the-cuff improvised toddler friendly vocabulary version probably works well enough for you.

The problem is when an improvised phonetic alphabet is being used because the speaker doesn't know a standardized phonetic alphabet. These people almost never take care to pick words that don't sound like other words. They think they're being helpful but often they're being less intelligible than if they weren't trying to use any phonetic alphabet at all. That is where the real benefit lies in teaching people to do it properly. It doesn't take long at all to teach a child the NATO phoenetic alphabet; your objection to the time it takes reeks of anti-intellectualism.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#127

Post by beenBoutIT »

magduf wrote: post #124
kbenson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5. So, the solution to not wanting to feel self conscious while saying decidedly simple and inoffensive words, and for task simple enough that people could probably be given a simple sentence or two instruction (choose a word that doesn't sound like another one) and could come up with valid examples (li…

No, because it doesn't work just as well, because everyone comes up with different words. The NATO alphabet isn't just used by NATO, it's used worldwide by civil and commercial aviation personnel (pilots & ATC). There's a reason for this: these words were carefully selected because they're unique and won't be confused with other words. It absolutely should be taught in school; it's not hard at all, and everyone has p…

It could be taught in preschools along with simple things like basic gun safety, swimming pool safety, and how to avoid perverts. Unfortunately all of these things are educational luxuries for the rare kid with parents that take the time to teach them to their kids. It seems like intelligent people could put together a laundry list of simple, easy-to-teach things along these lines that could be taught in schools for very little money.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#128

Post by gnopgnip »

VonGuard wrote: post #63

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

This has not been my experience. Last month I called 911 after getting hit by a car and I was speaking with someone within 10 seconds.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#129

Post by ihuman »

Terretta wrote: post #90
bungie4 wrote: post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

A public-domain alternative to that would be a Geohash[1]. Instead of 3 words, its a string of letters and numbers.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geohash

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#130

Post by gascan »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #125
nxc18 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fucked. You should never have to wait for a 911 call to be answered. Our society needs to do better. Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?

Improving the 911 EMS system won't improve police response time in Oakland because Oakland, like most of the US, has an ongoing shortage of police officers. There isn't any easy way to make the job of a police officer more attractive.

The hatred directed at police officers certainly doesn't help.

The recent fury directed at the handful of police officers who did not enter this or that school with an active shooter comes to mind. People have the expectation that police officers are required to die for us. Imagine being told by someone who already hates you, that you are supposed to die for them.

It feels like we are awfully entitled when it comes to the police. We expect them to serve us with the highest integrity, kindness, & selflessness, while offering them mediocre pay, disgust, & hatred in exchange.

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