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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't grasp this logic. Apple builds a feature to help with 911 services so they should fund 911 services? Apple also implemented Amber Alert support. Should they fund the Amber Alert system, too? Aren't emergency services pretty clearly the government's job? You already pay a fee on your cell bill specifically to cover the cost of 911 services to your local and state governments.

Apple is building a feature that will help them maintain their image and gain more user trust and loyalty. Government services aren't capitalist companies, their job is to efficiently allocate budget, not to "out-compete" anyone. If Apple starts subsidizing the cost of modern 911 (and building a feature into their mobile operating system to make 911 more accessible is surely subsidizing the cost of upgrading failing…

You're saying that because Apple enables a feature that helps 911, they should cover he costs of 911 service.

What this implies is that everyone should do the bare minimum required by law, because if they do anything more they should expect to shoulder billions in infrastructure costs that would otherwise be correctly carried by the government.

> If richer areas see benefits from this and start to drop the amount they spend on something like a private, enterprise mobile 911 product, then other departments are going to follow suit, and suddenly you have less 911 support in poorer/more rural areas because that's where less people have iPhones, yet departments are still following national budgeting/spending trends.

You are arguing that lowered support costs will actually decrease support. This makes no sense.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I regularly test myself when bored while driving to verbalize where I am. "Highway 401 East.. uhh I think I passed an exit for Guelph a while ago? I don't see a marker at the moment." Off topic: if you're often bored while driving, learn the NATO phonetic alphabet using license plates around you. It helps me four or five times a year when reading off things to people in customer service. The beauty of it is tha…

Do you know how many times I use the phonetic alphabet and then have to simplify even more because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't understand it? :D F for what? S? F is now Frank and S is now Sugar, because Foxtrot and Sierra often just get "was that s or f? What is Soxtrot?" it's ridiculous. I think everyone should be taught the NATO phonetic alphabet in school. When I'm talking to someone on the ph…

> When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5.

So, the solution to not wanting to feel self conscious while saying decidedly simple and inoffensive words, and for task simple enough that people could probably be given a simple sentence or two instruction (choose a word that doesn't sound like another one) and could come up with valid examples (like you just did), is to force them to learn a semi-universal and generic set of mostly nonsense words and names?

I did tech support for years, and any time I had to have someone type out a specific set of characters, it was not hard to just rely on common names, animals, or other extremely common words. The amount of wasted man-years in teaching and testing a phonetic alphabet for such little benefit would be mind boggling. The military has very specific requirements which change the cost benefit analysis greatly (verbal communication during battle conditions, for one), but those don't really apply to most people. It's trivial to come up with something that works well on the fly.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#93
This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation.

A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives.

I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would look like. Location is a huge part of it. Texting, sending images and videos would also be on the timeline.

Consider how much real-time location info — and live HD video streams — can 1 mobile phone produce, and how close to none of that is available in an emergency situation.

Consider how 911 is but one service, and that this is a worldwide problem. And that smartphones are worldwide too, and that there’s hundreds of millions of them.

I’m starting to plan out next steps. Connecting smartphones and emergency responders. Being a worldwide emergency digital-first dispatch service.

Imagine!

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#94

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

Let's say 911 there got staffed up and got resources to handle the call volume. Would this actually translate to better emergency services response? One assumes they're also all busy, all the time, no?

High-priority call that makes it through to a dispatcher at least has a chance to be "triaged" and responders from something less urgent pulled for it?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just at a loss. This is literally what taxes are for. If you want to argue that Apple et al should have to pay for their use of, e.g., GPS, I could understand that. (Not agree, but understand.) GPS has enabled high-value features to be built into Apple's products. On the other hand, Amber alert and 911 service support are literally mandated by the government. Apple cannot choose to not include them. (Though in th…

> This is literally what taxes are for. It is, but everyone has been avoiding taxes, so here we are with a supposedly first world country with third world infrastructure. Hence, my suggestion. You have to engineer for the world we have, not a perfect world.

> It is, but everyone has been avoiding taxes, so here we are with a supposedly first world country with third world infrastructure. Hence, my suggestion.

Your argument is that Apple doesn't pay taxes, so they should be taxed to cover the cost of 911 upgrades.

If Apple is so good at "avoiding taxes", how would you possibly make them pay for the 911 upgrades anyway? If you are capable of crafting such an inescapable tax law, why not just apply that to general tax law?

> You have to engineer for the world we have, not a perfect world.

Nothing here is about engineering. This is a proposed cash grab. Apple is successful so we should just take their money, not with reasonable tax law, but with targeted asset seizure.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#96
post #18

I had to make a 999 call a few years back because I saw a woman faint and bang her head on a concrete pavement. Although I was in the local area which I know very well, it was really difficult - when put on the spot in an emergency - to describe my exact location.

Yeah. I regularly test myself when bored while driving to verbalize where I am. "Highway 401 East.. uhh I think I passed an exit for Guelph a while ago? I don't see a marker at the moment." Off topic: if you're often bored while driving, learn the NATO phonetic alphabet using license plates around you. It helps me four or five times a year when reading off things to people in customer service. The beauty of it is tha…

I use the NATO alphabet when spelling my name to people in customer service. About 1 in 4 service representatives seem completely baffled, like they have never heard anything like it, and ask me to respell a 2nd or 3rd time. I even say "B as in Bravo, E as Echo..." because "Bravo, Echo..." just seems to confuse them even more...

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#97
post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

That helps with communicating the lat/long, but not with determining where that actually is. With what3words, not only are first responders still required to use some mobile device, but they're also reliant on a proprietary service (read: point of failure).

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#98
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is literally what taxes are for. It is, but everyone has been avoiding taxes, so here we are with a supposedly first world country with third world infrastructure. Hence, my suggestion. You have to engineer for the world we have, not a perfect world.

> It is, but everyone has been avoiding taxes, so here we are with a supposedly first world country with third world infrastructure. Hence, my suggestion. Your argument is that Apple doesn't pay taxes, so they should be taxed to cover the cost of 911 upgrades. If Apple is so good at "avoiding taxes", how would you possibly make them pay for the 911 upgrades anyway? If you are capable of crafting such an inescapable t…

No. My argument was it would be helpful if Apple voluntarily subsidized rural 911 call center upgrades to support the life critical feature they added to their devices.

You say “cash grab”, I say “corporate responsibility”.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#99
post #89

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

This is fucked. You should never have to wait for a 911 call to be answered. Our society needs to do better. Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?

It’s a question of priorities. 911 doesn’t excite voters as much as a bike line or zoning. Government gets many fundamentals wrong: pothole repair and 911 are good examples. Instead the Oakland mayor (and mayors everywhere) prefer to grandstand on hot button issues rather than doing the actual hard work of running a city. This is why I am suspicious when people call for more government regulation; it isn’t because I disagree with the idea, but I am not confident when it comes to actual execution. It isn’t even about money — it’s about how that money is managed and allocated.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#100
post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

But navigation systems in an car do work on streetnames and numbers ;)
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