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Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

theguardian.com

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Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#91

Post by Foivos »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80
Foivos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia? This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.

> They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders Ancient Athens once controlled the Aegean and its borders. Does this mean Anatolians should require Athens be re-named?

They do not want just to be named after that region. They want their country to eventually be this region. This is very clear if you ever visit. You can see everywhere maps like [1]. The red part is the "borders of their heart". In this photo, they actually kept the current borders (usually this is not the case) and you can see that they claim parts of Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania and a huge part of Greece. Also, a large part of the population shares these views, so such events is not just a mindless ultra nationalist minority.

[1] http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/04/02/49CB53830000...

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#92

Post by NeoBasilisk »

fibbra wrote: post #52
emptyfile wrote: post #23

A total embarrassment for both nations that it lasted so long.

It has been a big embarrassment. The 'macedonian' (irl: south slavic) language was recognized as a language in 1977 at a UN standards meeting that took place in Athens. When Yugoslavia was broken in pieces, the issue of the name for FYROM should have been resolved then and there. The most promising name was North Macedonia. Oh the irony.

I think that relative to the other issues that occurred with other former Yugoslav republics, a naming dispute was easily ignored at the time.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#93

Post by tbirrell »

Foivos wrote: post #76
jcranmer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now with the new "deal" they will take the name North Macedonia but they strictly mention that they do not have any relation to the Ancient Makedonas. So at the end of the day, why didnt the two goverment or EU or UN take 20 historians and ask them, "guys do they bare the right to have that name?" Whatever the historians say should be the verdict. The name Macedonia expanded to cover the modern country of Macedonia…

As you said the Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country. Add to this the fact the nationalists want the modern country to eventually gain all these territories. And before you claim, that these people are minority, having been there it seems that a lot of people share these feelings. For example you can see everywhere maps where the borders of the modern country are way mor…

I think thats the point, Greece doesn't want Macedonia to be able to claim the territory of Macedonia by virtue of naming.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#94

Post by Sangermaine »

newfoundglory wrote: post #84
Foivos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia? This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.

Yea, it's as silly as a country claiming to be the "United States of America" when lol, Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word...

Except, lol, it’s the reverse of the Macedonia-Greece issue: the US was the only recognized independent state in the Americas when they chose their name. If “Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word” they should invest in time machines.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#95

Post by SilasX »

StavrosK wrote: post #89
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which in turns creates issues with the Greek nation It creates zero issues for Greece. Alexander the Great died over two millenia ago [1]. Shortly after his death, the ancient kingdom of Macedon fell to Rome [2]. Again, over two millennia ago. Instead of working on something productive, these two nations found something totally irrelevant to squabble over. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great [2] h…

I think you grossly underestimate how much tourism Greece gets for the Macedonian museums/artifacts/etc. That would be like saying that Germany calling themselves "Rome" has zero issues for Italy.

Did it cause issues for Germany to call themselves the “Holy Roman Empire [of the German Nation]” for a thousand years? (Honest question.)

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#96

Post by newfoundglory »

Sangermaine wrote: post #94
newfoundglory wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it's as silly as a country claiming to be the "United States of America" when lol, Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word...

Except, lol, it’s the reverse of the Macedonia-Greece issue: the US was the only recognized independent state in the Americas when they chose their name. If “Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word” they should invest in time machines.

No, I don't see how you think it's opposite. Macedonia is a name for a large area. FYROM/Northern Macedonia is being used to name a country that takes up only part of this area. Similarly, the Americas are two continents, and USA is being used to name a country that takes up only part of this area. Neither the USA nor FYROM are granted any claim to the rest of their nominal superset.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#97

Post by newfoundglory »

fibbra wrote: post #63
ryanlol wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am very passionate about it Could you perhaps expand on this a little? I have a very hard time understanding why someone would be passionate about something like this.

FYROM is a neighboring country to Greece. For the last 20+ years, the two countries were on a stalemate on this. Greece did not invest much into their northern neighbor. Turkey with Erdogan has more economic involvement in FYROM than Greece, even if there are no traditional links between them.

I don't think the question was "what is Macedonia" but more like "please explain why this matters to you".

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#98

Post by LaMarseillaise »

Foivos wrote: post #77
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

I continue to regard this as the stupidest geopolitical dispute our reality can safely support.

What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia? This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.

I find your comment ironic because, in fact, 'Spain' ('Hispania') has historically referred to the entire peninsula.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#100

Post by jcranmer »

SilasX wrote: post #95
StavrosK wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you grossly underestimate how much tourism Greece gets for the Macedonian museums/artifacts/etc. That would be like saying that Germany calling themselves "Rome" has zero issues for Italy.

Did it cause issues for Germany to call themselves the “Holy Roman Empire [of the German Nation]” for a thousand years? (Honest question.)

Or the Byzantine Empire, who only ever referred to themselves as the Roman Empire.
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