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Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

theguardian.com

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Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Foivos wrote: post #76
jcranmer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now with the new "deal" they will take the name North Macedonia but they strictly mention that they do not have any relation to the Ancient Makedonas. So at the end of the day, why didnt the two goverment or EU or UN take 20 historians and ask them, "guys do they bare the right to have that name?" Whatever the historians say should be the verdict. The name Macedonia expanded to cover the modern country of Macedonia…

As you said the Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country. Add to this the fact the nationalists want the modern country to eventually gain all these territories. And before you claim, that these people are minority, having been there it seems that a lot of people share these feelings. For example you can see everywhere maps where the borders of the modern country are way mor…

> Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country

Should people in Western Turkey get pissed off about Greece calling itself Greece?

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#82

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
Foivos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you said the Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country. Add to this the fact the nationalists want the modern country to eventually gain all these territories. And before you claim, that these people are minority, having been there it seems that a lot of people share these feelings. For example you can see everywhere maps where the borders of the modern country are way mor…

> Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country Should people in Western Turkey get pissed off about Greece calling itself Greece?

Are you aware of Cyprus?

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#84

Post by newfoundglory »

Foivos wrote: post #77
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54

I continue to regard this as the stupidest geopolitical dispute our reality can safely support.

What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia? This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.

Yea, it's as silly as a country claiming to be the "United States of America" when lol, Canada and Mexico and all of South America would like a word...

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#85

Post by StavrosK »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80
Foivos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it mean for Portugal if Spain decided to change its name to Iberia? This is exactly what is happening here. They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders.

> They want to be named after a geographical region which is way bigger than their borders Ancient Athens once controlled the Aegean and its borders. Does this mean Anatolians should require Athens be re-named?

Think of like a part of the US emigrating into Argentina, taking up a majority of the country, and then deciding to rename Argentina to "Inca Empire" and talk about how great their Inca ancestors were. Presumably Peru would be at least a bit miffed about it.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#86

Post by phobosdeimos »

Svip wrote: post #17
black_puppydog wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greece didn't claim the country for itself, it claimed the name for it's own northern province.

Greece's logic in disapproving of the name Macedonia is that they fear that Macedonia (the republic) could some day claim the Greek province of Macedonia. By that logic, so should Luxembourg (the grand duchy) be able to claim the Belgian province of the same name.

Bad logic because Greece's borders are internationally recognized. Nobody legalised Russia annexing the Crimea. You cannot just claim territory unless you're a superpower.

Besides I think the people in Greece-Macedonia are happy being Greek.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#87

Post by Foivos »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
Foivos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you said the Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country. Add to this the fact the nationalists want the modern country to eventually gain all these territories. And before you claim, that these people are minority, having been there it seems that a lot of people share these feelings. For example you can see everywhere maps where the borders of the modern country are way mor…

> Macedonia region covers way more territory than the territory of the modern country Should people in Western Turkey get pissed off about Greece calling itself Greece?

Based on their claims in Thrace and Aegean sea they are. So I guess you agree with me then.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#88

Post by newfoundglory »

v_lisivka wrote: post #70
ben_w wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will of the people != will of the nationalists. Can’t really say the will of the people is being ignored when referenda are planned, referenda which one can reasonably still presume will be binding.

Both Greece and Macedonia are national countries, so in this case will of the people == will of the nationalists.

Greece probably shouldn't have elected an anti-nationalist governing party then.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#89

Post by StavrosK »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
shapiro92 wrote: post #57

I personally do not care about the naming. Name each place / country whatever you want. What I care about is the political games that are being played behind it. People in this thread miss one point about FYROM, they want to use the name Makedonia with relations to the ancient Makedonas. Which in turns creates issues with the Greek nation. Now with the new "deal" they will take the name North Macedonia but they stric…

> Which in turns creates issues with the Greek nation It creates zero issues for Greece. Alexander the Great died over two millenia ago [1]. Shortly after his death, the ancient kingdom of Macedon fell to Rome [2]. Again, over two millennia ago. Instead of working on something productive, these two nations found something totally irrelevant to squabble over. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great [2] h…

I think you grossly underestimate how much tourism Greece gets for the Macedonian museums/artifacts/etc. That would be like saying that Germany calling themselves "Rome" has zero issues for Italy.

Re: Macedonia changes name, ending bitter dispute with Greece

#90

Post by losvedir »

Svip wrote: post #9

So can Luxembourg claim the Belgian province of Luxembourg back then?

Or another example is China's Inner Mongolia province which borders the country Mongolia. This whole name thing is so stupid. Why can't they both just have the same name?
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