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Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

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101–110 of 130 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#101
post #62

The plural of anecdote is not data, but stories are fun. Last Christmas, I was on a multi-hop flight back to SF from the east coast. We were going to be landing in Vegas, and I was talking to a flight attendant. She mentions that conditions in Vegas were a little crazy, as the runway doesn't drain properly and crosswinds are common. As we're preparing to land, the captain gives the usual speech. It's going to be a li…

It was the pilot's phone, wasn't it.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The cost of an accident, should one occur, could be extremely high in terms of human life and the risk is completely avoidable in that no one absolutely needs to use their mobile phone in flight." compare it to: "The cost of an accident, should one occur, could be extremely high in terms of human life and the risk is completely avoidable in that no one absolutely needs to eat meat to survive, they can eat vegetables…

I understand what you're getting at here, but eating meat isn't associated with the risk of causing 400 other people to die with you in a fiery plane crash. Now whether or not such a risk exists is another question entirely.

Unless you like eating the meat of 400 people, anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#103
post #93
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are offline RSS readers, Kindle apps and Instapaper saves can be exported to various formats.

It is all offline, I only read in airplane mode on the phone, I use high contrast mode with medium brightness on the Instapaper app so don't think I really annoy everyone else, but you do get told to turn the phone off even if it is in airplane mode (thus no signal in our out) for takeoff and landing. I just need to go to super offline mode and print stuff out!

You don't have to turn your phone off during the entire takeoff and landing, just when the stewardesses come to check you.

Apparently that's the only dangerous part.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#104
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like GPS for landing is poor dependency, considering how easy it is to jam GPS...

That's why RNAV (GPS) approaches are still not allowed (for commercial flights) AFAIK. 30 degree error has nothing to do with GPS though. Probably DVD player interfered with Localizer signal.

GPS approaches are allowed, FWIW.

I'm also not sure the localiser signal was involved since I don't think the crew would have gone to the back to get the passenger to mess around with the DVD during an approach.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#105
post #92
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it turn out that anyone actually had his phone on?

How do you imagine they would find that out? Probably the problem was that during approach pilots had the usual GSM buzz in their headphones while trying to communicate with ATC. Do you really want your pilots not to hear ATC instructions on take-off, landing or taxi? Like not hearing landing clearance, or which runway exit to use, or what other traffic to lookout for. Do you even know what was the main cause of the…

To be able to hear the gsm buzz in their headphones, the cellphone would have to be on their person, turned on, and be about send/receive some sort of call or data. If a cell phone from a distance away can cause a gsm buzz, then being in an area that has cell phone reception would cause the buzz and they need to design their headphone systems better.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#106
post #91

I flew for the airlines. The problem is not your everyday takeoff and landing. The problem arises when the weather deteriorates to near zero visibility and the crew is relying on instrumentation to find that strip of pavement, at 130 knots. Instrument approaches rely on a narrowing volume of radio signals, the closer one is to the runway. The tighter the signal, therefore, the greater the deviation should something g…

> But how do you explain that to the traveling masses?

I think this has a lot to do with the whole "turn every device off" thing. Keeping aggravation levels down, with tired and stressed passengers, with a large mix of cultures and languages, means that it is much easier to say: everything must be turned off. Otherwise you get into 200 discussions about which devices are allowed, and you have to verify each one.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#107
post #85

This is strictly anecdotal evidence, but I'll throw in my 2 cents here. I have a private pilot certificate and am working toward an instrument rating right now, which involves being in continuous contact with air traffic control, flying in low / zero visibility conditions, and relying on aircraft instruments to guide me on landings. On numerous(if not all), I've had my iPhone with me, switched on and even in my lap a…

"Despite incoming calls and SMSs during these flights, not once have any of the instruments been affected by the phone." Without a fixed reference you have no way to verify this statement. Even if you crossed reference your flight instrument data with a ground-based reference it would not account for intermittent errors that could occur.

Can you clarify what you mean by a fixed reference and a ground-based reference? They sound the same to me, although for the latter I believe you may be talking about a VORTAC or other radio-based ground station, as opposed to pilotage(looking outside and seeing the ground).

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew a plane for the first time yesterday, it was only a tiny two seater, but with modern electronics. My instructor was using his iPhone during the flight and he didn't seem worried.

Flying a C172 G1000 is not the same as flying a 737-600. You're not shooting RNAV approaches, CAT I ILS, or low alt routes. You shouldn't even be looking at the instruments (I'm sure the CFI has told you). How about that annoying click/buzz in your headset from the phones TX? It's easy for you to ask your friend/CFI/passenger to turn off their phone but how about a cabin of ~100 people...while flying your approach?

Everyone in this sub-thread is right, including you. I've done RNAV and CAT I ILS in a C172(albeit no all-glass cockpit) with no interference from my iPhone(my instructor's phone was also on). I do agree that getting that many people people to turn off their phones(and complying) especially at a critical time would be rather difficult.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#109
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard could it be to get 500 phones, put them in a plane and dial them all ?

There are more than 500 different kinds of phones. That's the problem.

It's only a problem if the plane doesn't fail.

However, if it fails with those 500 then that's all you need to know to say "phones can down the plane". If you need more detail you can keep researching.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#110
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard could it be to get 500 phones, put them in a plane and dial them all ?

There are more than 500 different kinds of phones. That's the problem.

Not to mention the different kinds of airplanes, different kinds of electronics, and all possible permutations of the above. Yes, this may seem like overkill to many software devs. Safety-critical systems require huge amounts of testing. It's much more than "release early and iterate."
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