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Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

nytimes.com

111–120 of 166 posts

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#111
post #69
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many organizations create processes that are essentially random number generators. It allows bureaucrats to insert their personal preferences under a veneer of technocracy. Hang out at a corporate budget allocation meeting sometime.

I wonder if the processes are created for that purpose, or if that is just how they end up getting used.

I suspect all of the above

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#112
post #4

Why does a university have a personality test?

The best way I've been able to find to think about this is the fundamental axiom of geopolitics, which is basically tribalism defined mathematically. People want to work with and help others who are closer to them, who they feel are neighbors, brothers. This gets more and more true the more money and resources you have. While you and I are more tribally identified with Asian Americans, America's upper crust considers…

I agree with you, but this is not a tragedy of the commons.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My quote said SAT scores correlate with the g-factor and with GPA, not with admissions. If tree identification also correlated with these in your hypothetical world, why wouldn’t it be a legitimate criterion?

> My quote said SAT scores correlate with the g-factor and with GPA, not with admissions. My point was that the fact that it's used in admissions changes the correlation with g-factor and GPA. If you want to argue that SAT correlates with these things, then you should only be using SAT scores from countries where the SAT isn't used in college admissions.

What do you mean by “changes the correlation”, and how is that relevant? I don’t know what you’re getting at.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#116

These sorts of subjective judgements can drive you crazy. My father (who was asian-american) had a civilian job with the United States government and a part time job with the United States navy. His civilian job, which was in the most corrupt branch of the executive branch, rated him as a poor performer personality wise and as having "no leadership potential". Nobody got the message, really since after this he took a…

Why didn’t he leave to the private sector?

It's not a thing (some people) do when you've got a nice pension coming with value that gets higher the longer you stay.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#117
post #11

I can't help but think that college admissions based solely on test scores (as done in India, Russia, maybe China?), and nothing else, might be the least unfair way to judge applicants. Every admission system is unfair in some way but tests are a yardstick everyone understands and can optimize for. In India they publicly post the list of admitted students and their marks. Richer students may benefit from higher-quali…

I think the Indian system seems fairer on the outset and more merit-based but there are definitely conditions attached to the entrance examinations. For instance, - It’s more than just a Boolean to get into the right school. Your score dictates what major you’ll study for the next 3-4 years. This idea single-handedly ruins it for most students as they try and game the system because they want to study what they’re in…

> Your score dictates what major you’ll study for the next 3-4 years.

Do you have more info available on that? That sounds really bizarre to me.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#118
post #4

Why does a university have a personality test?

The best way I've been able to find to think about this is the fundamental axiom of geopolitics, which is basically tribalism defined mathematically. People want to work with and help others who are closer to them, who they feel are neighbors, brothers. This gets more and more true the more money and resources you have. While you and I are more tribally identified with Asian Americans, America's upper crust considers…

If Harvard admission criteria leave out the best applicants to other colleges, and they go on to create powerful companies like Google in large number, will Harvard’s prestige decrease despite continued support from the elites?

Doing well in tech entrepreneurship needs brilliance more than great personality and political connections (they should be above a level but you don’t need a very high level of them).

Politics is still the surest route to power but billionaires are also powerful and have longer influence. If next generation moguls are educated elsewhere, the colleges with more merit based criteria should emerge as more elite.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#119
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is Harvard doesn't need your money. If your non-legacy family has the resources to make a big enough donation to move to move the needle, your likely to either: 1) get in anyway just based on who you are, or 2) not really care whether you go to Harvard or not because you're the scion of generational wealth.

I think this is incorrect. It reminds me of The Simpsons' joke about Bill Gates, ("buy him out boys ... what, did you think I got rich by writing a bunch of checks?"). Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free. They want your money, regardless of whether or not they need it, whether it's a huge status-signaling donation or a drop in the ocean semester'…

"Harvard doesn't need anybody's money, but they sure aren't going to use endowment money to make things free."

I thought Harvard did make it essentially free to attend if your parents have a middle class income.

Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit

#120
post #11

I can't help but think that college admissions based solely on test scores (as done in India, Russia, maybe China?), and nothing else, might be the least unfair way to judge applicants. Every admission system is unfair in some way but tests are a yardstick everyone understands and can optimize for. In India they publicly post the list of admitted students and their marks. Richer students may benefit from higher-quali…

>I thought the American system sounded better when I was a high-schooler in India with not good but not great marks

You would probably have been lumped in and compared to the other Asian high-performers and would not have even gotten an interview.

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