Well, why discriminate on US citizenship for that matter, if academic merit is the main criterion. Americans of any kind would be less than 10% of the student body.
Harvard does not claim to be a purely academic meritocracy.
Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
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Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#52There may be racial differences in personality, but it is implausible that as the proportion of Asians in the high-achieving student population rises, their personalities get just worse enough that the fraction of Asian students at Harvard stays about the same. Harvard admits this when it says that what brings the Asian fraction down to 18% is "demographic". Elite universities are often accusing the broader society o…
What always gets lost in this debate though is the fact that grades and SAT scores aren't especially meaningful or important. Given that we've had Asians and Jews freaking out all week and making dogwhistle attacks against blacks/hispanics because of the Stuy admissions issue, the fact that these so-called metrics aren't inherently any better or more fair than a personality test or whatever somehow always gets lost i…
Studies have shown grades and test scores are predictive of college graduation rates and grades. Where is the research showing that subjective assessments of personality do so?
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#53There may be racial differences in personality, but it is implausible that as the proportion of Asians in the high-achieving student population rises, their personalities get just worse enough that the fraction of Asian students at Harvard stays about the same. Harvard admits this when it says that what brings the Asian fraction down to 18% is "demographic". Elite universities are often accusing the broader society o…
Look no further than this video.
Hispanic and Black populations in USA are consistently painting themselves as victims. As a result there are many Hispanic and Black organisations focused activism and their membership counts as "personality development" at Harvard.
Asian students on other hand are busy getting successful instead of painting themselves as victims.
How an Indian student faked to be African American and get admission https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwMzZtU5H7I&t=4s
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#54Why does a university have a personality test?
Because future leaders aren't the ones with the best academic test scores.
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#55There may be racial differences in personality, but it is implausible that as the proportion of Asians in the high-achieving student population rises, their personalities get just worse enough that the fraction of Asian students at Harvard stays about the same. Harvard admits this when it says that what brings the Asian fraction down to 18% is "demographic". Elite universities are often accusing the broader society o…
I agree with you up until your last point.
It's important to not confuse accusations made by the student body of a university with accusations made by the administration.
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#56What Harvard is trying to do is admit the people who will be national and global leaders 30 years from now, not the people who will get the best grades at Harvard. Since the country’s future leaders won’t be 60% Asian it doesn’t make sense for their class to be either.
I don't think we should prejudge what the racial makeup of the country's future leadership should be and then use de facto racial quotas to match those assumptions.
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#57I can't help but think that college admissions based solely on test scores (as done in India, Russia, maybe China?), and nothing else, might be the least unfair way to judge applicants. Every admission system is unfair in some way but tests are a yardstick everyone understands and can optimize for. In India they publicly post the list of admitted students and their marks. Richer students may benefit from higher-quali…
I think the Indian system seems fairer on the outset and more merit-based but there are definitely conditions attached to the entrance examinations. For instance,
- It’s more than just a Boolean to get into the right school. Your score dictates what major you’ll study for the next 3-4 years. This idea single-handedly ruins it for most students as they try and game the system because they want to study what they’re interested in. On the flip side you’re training students in majors that they personally may have no interest in
- The Indian system adds “quotas” for minorities but these percentages are fixed and don’t fluctuate over time. To make it worse they very publicly lower the bar for admissions since there’s two different scores that can now get you into the same university. This again leads a lot of students to try and game the system and forces the general populace to think of the system as unfair.
- There is no age barrier and combined with the above reasons, you’ll see a lot of students take the entrance exams many years in a row after graduating high school to land the right school and major. A lot that don’t succeed settle for a major/school or worse - commit suicide.
I think there’s a midpoint somewhere between the West’s opaque approach to college admissions and the East’s transparent yet rigid approach.
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#58What Harvard is trying to do is admit the people who will be national and global leaders 30 years from now, not the people who will get the best grades at Harvard. Since the country’s future leaders won’t be 60% Asian it doesn’t make sense for their class to be either.
> the country’s future leaders won’t be 60% Asian
huh? what? what scientific reason do you have for believing such a thing?
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#59What Harvard is trying to do is admit the people who will be national and global leaders 30 years from now, not the people who will get the best grades at Harvard. Since the country’s future leaders won’t be 60% Asian it doesn’t make sense for their class to be either.
I don't think we should prejudge what the racial makeup of the country's future leadership should be and then use de facto racial quotas to match those assumptions.
I don’t think there should be racial quotas, de facto or otherwise, but if Harvard decided to only admit tall men with “upper management written all over them” that wouldn’t be irrational.
Re: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits: Lawsuit
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was why this holistic admission was introduced in the first place: anti-semitism. Jewish applicants were becoming too good at the existing criteria used for admissions, so these universities switched to more subjective standards that they could use to disqualify these candidates.
Do you have a source for that? I would have assumed it was to create some diversity in their acceptance pool.
> In the 1920's, the Protestant Establishment still dominated business and society. University administrators sensed that if they admitted too many Jews, they would alienate themselves from the power centers around them. So they restricted the number of Jews by shifting their admissions criteria and putting more emphasis on "character," measured by alumni connections, athletic skill and personal letters of recommendation. Applicants were less likely to be admitted if all they demonstrated was academic brilliance.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/books/review/the-chosen-g...