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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

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Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#231

Post by aleh »

ljw1001 wrote: post #168
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

The strategy he’s following is to throw bones to his base and make the people of the country pick up the tab. If you’re applying an economic lens here, you’re solving the wrong problem.

IMHO, the reason is not really to protect US manufacturers. It is about long-running negative balance of trade between US and the rest of the world.

Protectionism rhetoric is a sugar-coat for Americans who will have to foot the bill by paying more for imported goods, but honestly, who else should?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Balance_of_trade

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#232

Post by schmichael »

canjobear wrote: post #227

For the anti-protectionists: Can you direct me to extensive empirical evidence that protectionist policies are harmful in the medium to long term? I often hear that Asian countries have followed protectionist policies for decades, and they seem to be doing well. Norway is also highly protectionist at least with regard to agriculture and as far as I know they have achieved their desired results. When does it work and…

Wikipedia is always a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism#Impact

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that it is unlikely these tariffs are meant to last in the medium-to-long term. This is a trade war so knowing what's a long term strategy vs a short term tactical maneuver is intentionally obfuscated in order to maximize leverage against the opponent.

Each side is just trying to rack up bargaining chips before sitting down and coming up with comprehensive trade agreements.

Or... that's how things could work. You can never know anymore.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#233

Post by CodeCube »

will_brown wrote: post #177
lozaning wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence of the 4th paragraph of your second link would seem to dispute your strategy. "Under zone procedures, the usual formal CBP entry procedures and payments of duties are not required on the foreign merchandise unless and until it enters CBP territory for domestic consumption" So the minute your startup sells me a chip for use in the US and it then leaves the free trade zone the tariff becomes due.

If I am importing a chip and reselling it I am not a manufacturer and yes I pay the tariff. If I import the chip and use it as a component in my manufacturing of the end product I don’t pay the tariff on that chip. The idea of the startup, as I mentioned in another comment, would be creating the zone and charging manufacturers to use my Zone. Like an Uber or On demand or WeWork (whatever SV analogy works best for you…

And these "startups" would certainly charge a premium for access to their services/zone ... so the "end user" still ends up footing the bill.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#234

Post by sheepmullet »

omegaworks wrote: post #223
siddarthd2919 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... your okay with Chinese kids with heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. The USA has more enforcement over these kind of things. If toxic pollution is your only concern, yes it is better to have those industries in USA.

>So... your okay with Chinese kids with heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. Show me where I said that. Of course not. You seem to be ok with every country that hopes to participate in the technological economy having their own contaminated region. Step back for a second. Think of the earth like a single-unit closed system. Would we rather have 195 regions contaminated with TCE or one/two? Your petty nationalism w…

> Show me where I said that

Most Chinese people lack the freedom to live and work where they choose. Most Americans have that freedom.

So if it is handled here in the US then not only will there be less pollution but far fewer kids would be impacted.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#235

Post by jpao79 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #199
ljw1001 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strategy he’s following is to throw bones to his base and make the people of the country pick up the tab. If you’re applying an economic lens here, you’re solving the wrong problem.

This. If anyone doesn't understand why ljw1001's comment is the correct interpretation, I highly recommend Beuno do Mesquita and Smith's "The Dictator's Handbook". https://smile.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-...

Adapted by CGP Grey for people who don't read:

The Rules for Rulers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#236

Post by evgen »

anon23423532 wrote: post #89
elago wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how are you coming up with these economic projections? Are you running simulations? Reading reports? Are you an economist? What if China just sells to other customers? What is China subsidizes it's manufacturers, so they get paid and keep their production capacity whether or not they're actually producing? Exactly like soybean and corn farmers in the US are btw. The whole thing seems incredibly complex, a…

They can try selling to other customers, but US is still around 25% of global GDP and probably a larger percentage of the market for the components that have been tariffed. Chinese government would have to print a lot of money to make up for that, which causes it's own issues, especially when considering the amount of debt China has already racked up. The point isn't for the government to skim 25%, it's to get China…

> US consumers can live without another 42in tv, Chinese can't live without food and they are entirely dependent on importing that food.

But they aren't dependent on importing that food from the US. Brazil, Australia, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Canada and Argentina are all happy to step up and take over for US producers who are now going to see demand fall through the floor and these producers have been preparing for the inevitable shoe to drop in retaliation for US tariffs for months now. Luckily most of the damage is going to be felt in those central plains red states, so we can all ruefully shake our heads and remind them that this is what happens when morons elect one of their peers.

But I am sure people are just going to be overjoyed when their Christmas electronics are significantly more expensive, and we will see how long they believe delusional statements like ones claiming that this action will "bring manufacturing back to the US" -- I am betting that line will get you a beat-down in the Midwest by next spring.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#238

Post by bo1024 »

delbel wrote: post #53

Here is the list https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig... Tractors, fork lifts, agricultural equipment Lathes Milling Machines LED's Lithium batteries Touch screen Not a lot of electrical "tech" goods besides these three above, maybe PCB and GPS equipment. About the tractors, milling machines, and lathe. I like this, because the new products that are available ... are chinese crap. But they are…

> You want a new small tractor, it'll come from India or China and it'll break down fast with electrical issues. [...] These are things we need to make here, make them right, and of high quality.

I'm definitely in agreement with this perspective and goal, but I don't know if I agree about the right way to accomplish it. In the end the problem is customers systematically choosing cheap junk over quality built to last. Trying to raise prices on junk seems like a very roundabout, heavy-handed, paternal government approach...not that I have a better solution.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#239

Post by omegaworks »

sheepmullet wrote: post #234
omegaworks wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So... your okay with Chinese kids with heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. Show me where I said that. Of course not. You seem to be ok with every country that hopes to participate in the technological economy having their own contaminated region. Step back for a second. Think of the earth like a single-unit closed system. Would we rather have 195 regions contaminated with TCE or one/two? Your petty nationalism w…

> Show me where I said that Most Chinese people lack the freedom to live and work where they choose. Most Americans have that freedom. So if it is handled here in the US then not only will there be less pollution but far fewer kids would be impacted.

If you really cared about Chinese people you'd let them in when they asked to immigrate here. That's enough conflating the protection of toxic industry with humanitarian concern.

Stop pretending. Learn your history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#240

Post by jpindar »

maccio92 wrote: post #17
luma wrote: post #3

As a basement hacker selling goods on Tindie this tariff schedule covers nearly every tool, consumable, and component parts I use in everything I do. My cost of business just went up by 25% today across the board. The full schedule: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig... Example items of interest to people designing electronic goods in the US: ------------------------------------------------…

You can't buy these parts from US companies?

A lot of those aren't made in US, even if they are made by US companies.
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