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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

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Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#191

Post by AngryData »

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107
luma wrote: post #28

I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version: this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help "protect" American businesses. I don't feel li…

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

I agree with the principle of bringing local jobs back, bolster our own industries to be more self-sufficient, however I think it is being done in the most disruptive and unstabalizing way possible. We should be going for a firm but gentle push, instead of swinging a sledgehammer around our heads and hoping we don't break the wrong skulls.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#192

Post by seanmcdirmid »

will_brown wrote: post #164
odorousrex wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that dodge the tariffs? (Legally) Let's say I'm Apple. I make MacPro's in Ft. Worth, Texas. The parts come from China. I now have to pay 25% more on those parts. However, since I'm Apple, I have manufactures making iPhones in China. So rationally, my best bet is to shut down my US based plant in Texas and move MacPro manufacturing to one of my factories in China. That way I legally dodge the tariffs since th…

Say you are Apple... You create a Foreign Trade Zone, ship your components there and manufacture there...you don’t pay tariffs on those Chinese components. Now the idea with political cronies/tech start ups that can raise SV funding, they will create one and turn around and offer manufacturers the opportunity to use the zone for their manufacturing (a la the Uber of Foreign Trade Zone/Free Trade Zone) Edit: Just chec…

I don’t think the USA has SEZs like China does.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#193

Post by azurezyq »

Not sure how long this can last. But factories need time to be built. If the tariff got repealed in less than a year, it's just net negative for US economy and nothing will be really changed.

I think generally trade war makes sense as a short time lever for something else, but may be a bad idea for long term growth .

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#194

Post by yellowapple »

sangnoir wrote: post #176
znpy wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? Not "other countries", just China. Now, I'm not an us citizen and I don't like Mr Trump particularly, but consider the following: when you say "less efficient" what are you referring to? Is it technology? USA are certainly not behind China on technology. So what is missing to the equation? It's labo…

> Also, you're not considering environmental impact (that the US, while not excelling at this, actually do consider). The US is a bigger polluter (per capita) than China. The current administration at the EPA seems to view environmental considerations as hindrances to industry competitiveness.

The US is a bigger per-capita polluter only because the average Chinese "capita" can't afford to (or otherwise doesn't for some other reason, but knowing Chinese living conditions, I'd bet affordability is the main factor) do/buy/use nearly as many pollution-causing things as the average American "capita".

As a specific example, the US is (according to Wikipedia at least) second only to San Marino in vehicles per capita (910 for every 1000 people). China is in 73rd place, with a much more modest 154. Electricity consumption is similarly different, with the US' per-capita electricity consumption being triple that of China's (despite China having almost double the total electricity consumption of the US).

If the average Chinese had the same purchasing power as the average American, I can guarantee that China's per-capita pollution would skyrocket to beyond US levels.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#195

Post by e40 »

ljw1001 wrote: post #168
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

The strategy he’s following is to throw bones to his base and make the people of the country pick up the tab. If you’re applying an economic lens here, you’re solving the wrong problem.

Which is all the more sad, because his base is so stupid they don't see it does them harm. Depressing!

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#196

Post by jackewiehose »

znpy wrote: post #166
atomi wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

> You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? Not "other countries", just China. Now, I'm not an us citizen and I don't like Mr Trump particularly, but consider the following: when you say "less efficient" what are you referring to? Is it technology? USA are certainly not behind China on technology. So what is missing to the equation? It's labo…

> Not "other countries", just China.

It's not just China. There's also Mexico, Canada, Europe ... I don't know exactly the current state of affairs but Trump certainly doesn't punish China because of its bad working conditions.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#197

Post by logicfiction »

rsynnott wrote: post #83
kevin_b_er wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made in USA electronics goods are now more expensive via tariffs because the equipment and the components are now more expensive. Brilliant.

Well, more likely the companies making them will just move production elsewhere or go out of business. Components are big part of the cost of your average consumer device, and margins mostly aren't high.

Seems like a good guise for industry leaders to move operations of out the US in a climate where political sentiment is high for keeping it here.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#198

Post by seanmcdirmid »

stcredzero wrote: post #188
atomi wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be right. Cars, computers, TVs seem to be big imports. But America does not produce all of it's own rare earth metals so manufacturing some products without also increasing raw material production could be an issue - if our goal is to decrease reliance on other countries.

But America does not produce all of it's own rare earth metals so manufacturing some products without also increasing raw material production could be an issue - if our goal is to decrease reliance on other countries. We have domestic rare earth metal resources. Right now, we don't mine it here, because it's too expensive to get rid of the resulting Thorium. If there was only a market for that stuff...

The USA doesn’t mine it because refining it is economically not competitive compared to Chinese producers who give a damn about pollution laws.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#199

Post by killjoywashere »

ljw1001 wrote: post #168
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

The strategy he’s following is to throw bones to his base and make the people of the country pick up the tab. If you’re applying an economic lens here, you’re solving the wrong problem.

This. If anyone doesn't understand why ljw1001's comment is the correct interpretation, I highly recommend Beuno do Mesquita and Smith's "The Dictator's Handbook".

https://smile.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-...

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#200

Post by Shank »

rb808 wrote: post #128
forkLding wrote: post #25

Wonder how Apple is taking this EDIT: Interesting, didn't know Apple manufacturing policies until now.

9030.40.00 Instruments and apparatus specially designed for telecommunications Doesn't that mean iPhones will have the tariff?

Completed smartphones and TVs aren't on the list, so they aren't under this one.
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