Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 390 posts

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#161

Post by defertoreptar »

kinsomo wrote: post #134
luma wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the rationale, which is pretty clearly laid out here: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Section%20301%20FINAL.P... What I don't understand is the response. The burden of this cost has entirely been placed upon US businesses purchasing products from (in many cases) the only place you can buy them and then assembling the completed product in the US with US labor. As someone doing small-scale production…

> What I don't understand is the response. The burden of this cost has entirely been placed upon US businesses I don't think that's true, which is proven by the fact that China is strongly opposed to the tariffs and plans to retaliate with their own. China's exports will go down, so it will cost them too.

If the USA goes up 25% and then China goes up 25%, then it will impact China's GDP far more than USA's. China's economy relies much more on trade with the USA than the other way around.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#162

Post by dqpb »

natvert wrote: post #90
Jyaif wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "125% more ", which is incorrect. If you had said "125% of the price", then that would have been correct.

yes, i don't disagree. this is all beside the point though -- the tariffs will have the opposite of the desired effect though: pushing more assembly to China and making it harder for innovators in the US.

It's important to be accurate.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#163

Post by atomi »

dqpb wrote: post #152
atomi wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

What products are "inherently more efficient and cost-effective" in China?

I think it's mostly that raw materials and labor are likely cheaper in China.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#164

Post by will_brown »

odorousrex wrote: post #158
jerkstate wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by manufacturing in the US, perhaps

How does that dodge the tariffs? (Legally) Let's say I'm Apple. I make MacPro's in Ft. Worth, Texas. The parts come from China. I now have to pay 25% more on those parts. However, since I'm Apple, I have manufactures making iPhones in China. So rationally, my best bet is to shut down my US based plant in Texas and move MacPro manufacturing to one of my factories in China. That way I legally dodge the tariffs since th…

Say you are Apple...

You create a Foreign Trade Zone, ship your components there and manufacture there...you don’t pay tariffs on those Chinese components.

Now the idea with political cronies/tech start ups that can raise SV funding, they will create one and turn around and offer manufacturers the opportunity to use the zone for their manufacturing (a la the Uber of Foreign Trade Zone/Free Trade Zone)

Edit: Just checked, and as one might expect Apple already operates out of Foreign Trade Zones

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#165

Post by lozaning »

will_brown wrote: post #157
kec wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth could a startup provide that service legally?

Step 1: create what is called in the US a foreign trade zone (internationally Free Trade Zone) Step 2: get VC to give you funding at ridiculous valuation Step 3: market yourself as “tech” start up, that is hacking the (new) law, and disrupting globally industry (of course said start up isn’t actually doing anything new that the manufacturing industry hasn’t always done) Sources: I was involved in one for an e-bike ma…

The first sentence of the 4th paragraph of your second link would seem to dispute your strategy. "Under zone procedures, the usual formal CBP entry procedures and payments of duties are not required on the foreign merchandise unless and until it enters CBP territory for domestic consumption"

So the minute your startup sells me a chip for use in the US and it then leaves the free trade zone the tariff becomes due.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#166

Post by znpy »

atomi wrote: post #115
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently both more efficient and cost-effective? You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

> You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries?

Not "other countries", just China.

Now, I'm not an us citizen and I don't like Mr Trump particularly, but consider the following: when you say "less efficient" what are you referring to? Is it technology? USA are certainly not behind China on technology. So what is missing to the equation? It's labor. China is so "efficient" because of its ultra-capitalist-masked-as-communist regime. Also, you're not considering environmental impact (that the US, while not excelling at this, actually do consider).

All this (carelessness of environmental impact and no freedom of thought) are basically unfair competition and Donald Trump is right on this initiative.

As a left-leaning person I just cannot understand how is it even possible to accept as the norm the fact that a totalitarian regime like China's has got such a nice treatment so far.

My 2¢

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#167

Post by pjc50 »

merpnderp wrote: post #135
pjc50 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the US has always played fair in the global market and never used its dollar position, tarriffs, sanction, invasions etc for market advantage?

You're comparing apples and oranges. When has the US government stolen trade secrets from foreign companies and then bootstrapped new domestic companies to compete against them? China has surely done all the things you're accusing the US of, but they aren't being punished for that.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/airbus-germany-nsa-spyi...

(I'm not sure anything has been proven definitively in the open, but I'm not sure that applies to all these China allegations either)

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#168

Post by ljw1001 »

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107
luma wrote: post #28

I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version: this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help "protect" American businesses. I don't feel li…

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

The strategy he’s following is to throw bones to his base and make the people of the country pick up the tab. If you’re applying an economic lens here, you’re solving the wrong problem.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#169

Post by orwin »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #127
radlad wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. In this case, doing something (a) does not harm China, as intended, as they are still the only viable place to purchase these items, yet (b) actively harms business in the United States, as we are paying the additional cost ourselves.

(a) I mean this tariff does definitely harm China. The reason they're the only viable place to purchase these items is because they're so cheap. Making them more expensive gives space for non-Chinese competitors to enter into business. (b) It actively harms some businesses, but also gives room for new companies to form where they wouldn't have been able to previously. It's wrong to claim this hurts 'business' in a br…

It does not harm china that much:

It's too late for IP on old products, China is becoming more and more interesting for european "brain" (or US is less interesting, i don't know), and China education have caught up to western education (at least in STEM) during the last decade.

The tariffs attack the wrong goods: Us manufacturers will still be buying them at 25% up, and chinese and europeans will sell finished products lower than manufacturers. And China can actually outsource the finishing touch of unfinished products in SW Asia or (even better for almost everyone) in Africa.

Honestly i don't really care but i am interested on how India/Indonesia (and some african countries i hope) will take advantages of Trump policies. To me this is a good thing for the world, general "comfort" of several countries could rise thank to Trump. I know it's frowned upon here, but i like several move he made, including this, and how he made european countries closer.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#170

Post by drb91 »

anon23423532 wrote: post #48

It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to save a few bucks. It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back, but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go. I'd take short…

It’s not clear these tariffs will change this. It’s still in China’s interest to gate entry to their markets.
Post reply on HN