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Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

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Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#51

Post by Construct »

paolomaffei wrote: post #12
mikeryan wrote: post #4

There's a pretty robust wikipedia article about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft

"The cost of an accident, should one occur, could be extremely high in terms of human life and the risk is completely avoidable in that no one absolutely needs to use their mobile phone in flight." compare it to: "The cost of an accident, should one occur, could be extremely high in terms of human life and the risk is completely avoidable in that no one absolutely needs to eat meat to survive, they can eat vegetables…

I understand what you're getting at here, but eating meat isn't associated with the risk of causing 400 other people to die with you in a fiery plane crash.

Now whether or not such a risk exists is another question entirely.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#52

Post by byrneseyeview »

rmc wrote: post #48
spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

They take bottles of water or cans of coke off you because you might be able to crash a plane with one. They don't take your mobile phone off you, ergo they can't be that dangerous.

Your unspoken premise is that the FAA 1) Cares about safety (more than they care about appearing to care), and 2) That they know what they're doing.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#53

Post by m_eiman »

xyzzyz wrote: post #43

Do the cellphones even work in airplanes? I mean, they are pretty far from antennas, even over civilized area. They also move quite fast, although I do not really know how much Doppler effect affects the phones' transmitters and receivers. The plane is also a Faraday cage, thus it may greatly reduce signal.

GSM is designed to be usable when travelling in a car, but going much faster than that will likely cause problems. It's probably problematic that you're not staying long enough in a single cell tower's range, and doppler effects on the radio signals will also cause problems (if I remember correctly from my uni course on the subject).

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#54

Post by joezydeco »

artmageddon wrote: post #46
a-priori wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can all agree that a four-seater Cessna and 767 are very different, but for nav/comm they all use the same instrument systems. Unlike a Cessna, a 767 has a fly-by-wire system supported by a data bus (e.g. ARINC-429) running the length of the aircraft, often close to the passenger cabin. Presumably, GSM/CDMA signals could interfere with this.

I'll admit that I wasn't aware of this, but on the same token, would that portion of the electronics not be shielded as well?

The 767 was first built in 1981, long before everyone in the passenger cabin was emitting microwave-class RF radiation.

The plane itself serves as a very large shield to outside radiation, but I'm guessing the internal wiring is not RF-shielded because of weight concerns. Wonder how much it costs to rewire a 30 year-old plane.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#55

Post by sbarre »

DrJokepu wrote: post #45
mgod wrote: post #23

Please, please let's let the airlines keep this rule no matter how little it has to do with safety. If you get an honest answer from a pilot, they'll tell you this was never covered in any flight school, and they usually leave their phone on, but can you imagine a flight where that business guy who just doesn't get it spends the whole time on flight talking on the phone?

Consider this: you're on an eight hours long flight and you need to make a really urgent call. There are no technical reasons why you wouldn't be able to do so, but it is forbidden because some people would abuse it and wouldn't be considerate to other passangers. It's not the phone that should be banned, it's being an inconsiderate prick that should be disallowed.

Need to make a short urgent call? Get up, go to the bathroom (which is conveniently sized like a phone booth), make your call, take a piss while you're at it, go back to your seat.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#56

Post by almost »

DrJokepu wrote: post #45
mgod wrote: post #23

Please, please let's let the airlines keep this rule no matter how little it has to do with safety. If you get an honest answer from a pilot, they'll tell you this was never covered in any flight school, and they usually leave their phone on, but can you imagine a flight where that business guy who just doesn't get it spends the whole time on flight talking on the phone?

Consider this: you're on an eight hours long flight and you need to make a really urgent call. There are no technical reasons why you wouldn't be able to do so, but it is forbidden because some people would abuse it and wouldn't be considerate to other passangers. It's not the phone that should be banned, it's being an inconsiderate prick that should be disallowed.

But until we figure out a way to ban being a prick I'll take the blanket phone ban.

And what is this urgent call about anyway? Maybe to you it seems urgent and to me it just seems like you're being inconsiderate.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#57

Post by a-priori »

eggnet wrote: post #40
run4yourlives wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because they want you to have all your senses (especially hearing so they can give you instructions) during take-off and landing; the most dangerous parts of any flight. It has nothing to do with the MP3 players themselves.

Nope. Why force people to turn off their kindles but not close their books?

Last time I checked, paperbacks don't have cellular radios.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#58

Post by joezydeco »

WillyF wrote: post #44
run4yourlives wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because they want you to have all your senses (especially hearing so they can give you instructions) during take-off and landing; the most dangerous parts of any flight. It has nothing to do with the MP3 players themselves.

What about the "radio" stations you can listen to if you plug in to the headrest. I never listen, but do they stop at takeoff and landing? I can't remember if jetBlue turns off your tv during takeoff and landing. I know they turn it off for safetey announcements.

The crew can interrupt that audio at any time with PA or emergency directions.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#59

Post by jonknee »

xyzzyz wrote: post #43

Do the cellphones even work in airplanes? I mean, they are pretty far from antennas, even over civilized area. They also move quite fast, although I do not really know how much Doppler effect affects the phones' transmitters and receivers. The plane is also a Faraday cage, thus it may greatly reduce signal.

Not well, but they can work (9/11 proved this pretty conclusively). It depends on where, how fast and how high up you are.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#60

Post by jonknee »

hcho wrote: post #37
cryptoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The airlines claim the risk of death from my water bottle is too high to allow me to bring the water on the plane. Fine. However, I'm allowed to bring 100 cellphones in a backpack. They don't care about that, except to politely ask me to turn them off. If there was a remote chance of a cellphone causing a crash - more chance than a bottle with water in it - then they would ban cellphones in flight. It's v…

The water bottle thing is not airlines' doing as far as I know. It's to do with your countries national security authority. Emirates allows mobile phones on some of their flights.

> The water bottle thing is not airlines' doing as far as I know.

Neither is the cell phone thing in the US. It's both the FAA and FCC:

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsid=62...

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