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Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

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Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#21

Post by eli »

rakkhi wrote: post #16
mikeryan wrote: post #4

There's a pretty robust wikipedia article about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft

Thanks for the link, a few good quotes from there: Now this I can definately belive: "the report concludes that the primary reason for the ban on cell phone use in flight is that neither the FAA nor the FCC are willing to spend the money to perform conclusive safety tests. " God flight attendant observations? Thats the evidence that is reliable? How could you isolate for all the other factors? "However a few reports…

This is my point - are we still in 1984?

No, but I'm pretty sure the point is that planes from 1984 are still in use.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#22

Post by cryptoz »

hcho wrote: post #5

Leave your phone near a CRT screen or loudspeaker, observe the noise right before you recieve a call. The rest is statistics and probability. What's the probability of interference causing a fatal misreading in aircraft's sensor? Too small. What's the number of flights world wide? Too big. We would see a number of accidents if everyone kept their phones on all the time. As a death is one too many, it warrants the ban…

I disagree. The airlines claim the risk of death from my water bottle is too high to allow me to bring the water on the plane. Fine. However, I'm allowed to bring 100 cellphones in a backpack. They don't care about that, except to politely ask me to turn them off.

If there was a remote chance of a cellphone causing a crash - more chance than a bottle with water in it - then they would ban cellphones in flight.

It's very clear that there is no actual risk of interference at all.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#23

Post by mgod »

Please, please let's let the airlines keep this rule no matter how little it has to do with safety. If you get an honest answer from a pilot, they'll tell you this was never covered in any flight school, and they usually leave their phone on, but can you imagine a flight where that business guy who just doesn't get it spends the whole time on flight talking on the phone?

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#24

Post by cryptoz »

steveklabnik wrote: post #3

It has to do with FCC regulations. This is terribly handwavy, because I barely remember the explanation, but basically, they have to make sure that the plane isn't giving off certain signals and interfere with anything, and the easiest way to do that is just to tell everyone to switch their devices off. Hopefully someone can clarify that a bit.

> they have to make sure

This is the problem, though. They don't make sure! They politely ask you to turn your phone off. 50% of people comply, 50% don't. If they actually had to stop the signals, they would ban all cellphones in the cabin. They could collect them, put them in a lead case with the luggage and move on.

But since they don't "make sure" of anything, I disagree with your explanation.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#25

Post by rakkhi »

pyronicide wrote: post #18

Mythbusters did a great show on this problem. Here's a link to the results of the show: http://mythbustersresults.com/episode49

Thanks for that I was really hoping that Mythbusters had tested it. "It was found that cell phone signals, specifically those in the 800-900 MHz range, did intefere with unshielded cockpit instrumentation. Because older aircraft with unshielded wiring can be affected, and because of the possible problems that may arise by having many airborne cell phones "seeing" multiple cell phone towers, the FCC (via enforcement through the FAA) still deems it best to err on the safe side and prohibit the use of cell phones while airborne."

So that is interesting, wonder if they suggested modern shielded planes. Also lends credence to ground interferance as the real reason for the "ban"

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#26

Post by SpikeGronim »

spokey wrote: post #2

If they were really dangerous, I suspect they wouldn't let you have them in the cabin at all. "Everyone turn off your phone" isn't the level of safety compliance major airlines typically rely on.

If they were really dangerous, Al Qaeda would be using them to bring down planes.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#27

Post by hcho »

rakkhi wrote: post #6
hcho wrote: post #5

Leave your phone near a CRT screen or loudspeaker, observe the noise right before you recieve a call. The rest is statistics and probability. What's the probability of interference causing a fatal misreading in aircraft's sensor? Too small. What's the number of flights world wide? Too big. We would see a number of accidents if everyone kept their phones on all the time. As a death is one too many, it warrants the ban…

Ok how about on airplane mode only so I can still read but not recieve any calls? Also ban is a bit strong with how it actually works - I mean how do you really enforce that? The air hostesses go around do a quick look but they can miss things, also phones in hand luggage cannot be checked and people can forget it is on, the terrorist scenario I paint above... I mean I design controls for a living and this just does…

Airplane mode is safe but it is problamatic when it comes to enforcing. There's no way for a flight attendant to tell whether idevice is in flight mode.

>Or are you arguing that most people turn them off because they get told to and that is enough to mitigate the risk?

Yes, that's what I meant.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#28

Post by cryptoz »

rakkhi wrote: post #25
pyronicide wrote: post #18

Mythbusters did a great show on this problem. Here's a link to the results of the show: http://mythbustersresults.com/episode49

Thanks for that I was really hoping that Mythbusters had tested it. "It was found that cell phone signals, specifically those in the 800-900 MHz range, did intefere with unshielded cockpit instrumentation. Because older aircraft with unshielded wiring can be affected, and because of the possible problems that may arise by having many airborne cell phones "seeing" multiple cell phone towers, the FCC (via enforcement t…

But that's the part I don't get; there's no "ban" at all! I can bring a bunch of phones on the plane and just not tell them about it. If they search my bags, they'll remove my 200ml of water citing "it's too dangerous" but they'll leave the cellphones alone.

That's not much of a "ban". So I still disagree that phones could interfere in any meaningful way with any aircraft's systems.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#29

Post by Marticus »

irons wrote: post #15
Pyrodogg wrote: post #9

Another reason I've heard argued by a coworker is that they aren't banning electronics for the sake of interference, but for your attention. If anything were to go wrong during a flight, takeoff and landing are the two times that they want you to be able to react with zero hesitation. If something goes wrong and you have seconds to react, the less things you're fiddling with the more likely you are to survive.

That's not a compelling explanation, considering that you're free to keep your head in a John Grisham potboiler (as long as it's not a Kindle edition), or remain fully asleep at takeoff and/or landing.

Well actually I think it's better than jamming the newest (insert band here) album and not be able to hear much other than that and a very dim amount of engine noise.

I think it is safe to say it's likely a combination of many things - this coupled with statistics (as mentioned before, very small % failure rate + very large flight volume = enough dead people to warrant having them turned off) seems the most plausible.

Not to mention that someone linked that it could very well be a problem with the cellular networks - if (hypothetically) you could bugger up an entire major tower with enough "hop" volume, I can see why the FAA or other organization would just want to have this as a cover-our-ass precaution, too.

Re: Ask HN: Are mobile phones on a plane taking off or landing really dangerous?

#30

Post by rakkhi »

Sidnicious wrote: post #11

I've heard it summarized thusly: The aircraft is most likely to hit something during takeoff and landing. Cell phones, laptops, and other hard, dense, chunks of metal plastic are, in fact, dangerous when they're flying toward your head. It doesn't particularly matter whether they pose an electronic threat, policy would be the same.

Wouldn't that just mean the policy should be put them away not turn them off?
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