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Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

news.byu.edu

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Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#31

Post by cimmanom »

chrisseaton wrote: post #29
cimmanom wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. For most women it's awesome that men get paternity leave. @rconti suggested that equal paternity leave might be unfair because of the additional physical costs that women pay to give birth; I was disagreeing with that, saying that if anything paternity adds value for those women. Paternity leave even adds value for women who will never have children, because it undercuts any argument that prefers hiring men over…

> They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result. How on earth are they put at a disadvantage that someone who does not exist, and so does not need the benefit, does not get that benefit? And more broadly is it nice to talk about someone else getting a benefit that they need as being putting people who do not get it at a 'disadvantage'? Are you disadvantaged that people who can't walk get…

I'm saying that women who have partners who get paternity leave are able to get assistance and support in the weeks after giving birth when they're exhausted, healing, and in many cases fighting post-partum depression.

Women without partners or whose partners don't get leave have to face that time alone.

It's not a disadvantage in a competition. It's an additional obstacle to overcome that not everyone has to. I think it's a shame we can't give every mother the chance to have that physical assistance and moral support after giving birth.

(Of course, before we address that, maybe we should focus on making paid maternity leave universal. Imagine giving birth (pushing a watermelon out of your private parts or having it cut out of your abdomen) and then having to return to a physically demanding minimum wage job immediately after so you can still pay the rent and buy food? While being the sole caregiver for a baby who wakes you every 3 hours for feeding. I don't know how they do it. My friends who gave birth naturally were advised by their doctors not to even try to walk more than around the house for the first 6 weeks after, to allow for proper healing.)

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#32

Post by chrisseaton »

Karishma1234 wrote: post #4

I believe that is a side effect of increased productivity and prosperity but is this study conditioned on the children having dads in first place? Because I believe single mother phenomenon is on a rapid rise in USA. What about children who dont know their dads ?

> Because I believe single mother phenomenon is on a rapid rise in USA. What about children who dont know their dads ?

A single mother doesn't imply that the children don't know or spend time with their father.

Perhaps even children with single mothers see more of their fathers, because when they stay with their fathers they get more attention from him? I don't know, but I guess you don't really know either.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#33

Post by ktross »

NDizzle wrote: post #25

I left the bay area in 2013 when my third kid was born. I'm about 110 miles north now. I expected that as I withdrew from long office hours, replacing it with remote work, my income stagnate (or go down). The opposite happened - my income has actually gone up steadily. Towards the point of this topic - I have been able to spend a lot of time with my kids. We walk (or bike) to and from school, I coach sports, and I'm…

I’m a newly single parent, and I’ve been considering my options in regards to remote work. Are you employed full time by a single company or do you find freelance work? The challenge and time investment of finding new clients constantly has me leaning away from freelancing. I haven’t yet been able to find a full time position that’s flexible enough (results based) though.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#34

Post by aikinai »

rconti wrote: post #7

My employer just increased their family leave from 12 weeks to 20 weeks, which is a great perk. These days nobody seems to differentiate from maternity vs paternity leave, which is a great idea because, aside from the value it provides fathers, it also gets rid of the idea that the mother should get more time because mothers should be more involved. (alas, you can argue that it ignores the physical sacrifices the mot…

Google has a cool system where everyone with a new child gets (very long and equal) parental leave. If you physically give birth, you get extra time for preparation and recovery (e.g. men and women adopting, etc. don’t get it). I think this is a good way to recognize the extra burden of parents who give birth while being fair on the parenting front.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#35

Post by devmunchies »

Yetanfou wrote: post #19
delbel wrote: post #6

I was trying to understand andrewclunn now dead comment below. Basically he was saying there was no need for the author of the article (not the study) to write "toxic masculinity" narrative. When I clicked on the PDF, to scan for the word "toxic" I was unable to open the PDF. Did the author of the article Jon McBride artificially put this narrative spin on the study? If so, I don't understand why somebody would do th…

I think this field - sociology - and the humanities in general have become so much politicised that it is very hard to find articles on subjects like these which do not read like an action plan for some or other political group. While I could not get the article through Wiley I did find it on Sci-Hub: http://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1111/jomf.12476 And yes, with lines like "... Given that hegemonic masculinity p…

> I think this field - sociology - and the humanities in general have become so much politicised ... it could just as well have been a point of action for some feminist organisation as a research article

You may be right on the whole, but this out of BYU—one of the most conservative and family-oriented universities in the US.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#36

Post by germinalphrase »

zxcmx wrote: post #30
mi100hael wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spanking is considered to be a "toxic" display of masculinity these days?

It’s against the law in New Zealand for example. You may restrain a child for their safety but the use of force for “parental correction” is treated as assault and can be prosecuted. The police are encouraged to apply discretion.

Generally speaking, It is not illegal in the US unless you leave visible marks (e.g. bruises). Even then, it would be reported but little action would be taken unless there are additional issues with the child’s safety.

It is still common in many places for a “whooping” to be used to keep kids in line.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#37

Post by theatrics109 »

yedava wrote: post #17
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably something to do with this: >The study also showed a correlation between fathers who exhibit negative aspects of traditional masculinity and fathers who are less involved with their children. >“It’s important to understand what masculinity is and is not,” Shafer said. “In some circles, when people hear terms like hegemonic or toxic masculinity, they think those are attacking all men. Not so. There are some ve…

I don't think authors mean that men need to be "emotional" all the time. They seem to be saying that being detached and hiding emotions prevents men from seeking help or forming stronger relationships.

This idea comes from a stereotypically female perspective. Men typically form stronger relationships with other men through shared struggles -- playing on a team together, going hunting, building something, etc. Working together and not complaining builds trust. To say that the female approach of long emotional talks and displays is objectively superior is not justified.

Ask one of your friends who works in a female dominated workplace what it's like. They might prefer a bit more stoicism, less emotional displays, and more working together without complaint.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#38

Post by liveoneggs »

ktross wrote: post #33
NDizzle wrote: post #25

I left the bay area in 2013 when my third kid was born. I'm about 110 miles north now. I expected that as I withdrew from long office hours, replacing it with remote work, my income stagnate (or go down). The opposite happened - my income has actually gone up steadily. Towards the point of this topic - I have been able to spend a lot of time with my kids. We walk (or bike) to and from school, I coach sports, and I'm…

I’m a newly single parent, and I’ve been considering my options in regards to remote work. Are you employed full time by a single company or do you find freelance work? The challenge and time investment of finding new clients constantly has me leaning away from freelancing. I haven’t yet been able to find a full time position that’s flexible enough (results based) though.

I have a "regular" (9-5) remote job and a wife who works full time. Working from home has been very helpful for childcare activities.

I pick up my kids at 2-3 pm and then get a babysitter for the afternoons while I am still working until 5ish. This ends up being, basically, just a late lunch.

If things go south with my babysitter the kids can play or watch tv while I finish up the day and it's not a big deal to occasionally do.

I would try to get a stable/full-time job at a family friendly company, but that's just me all the time. Health care is expensive.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#39

Post by sjg007 »

aikinai wrote: post #34
rconti wrote: post #7

My employer just increased their family leave from 12 weeks to 20 weeks, which is a great perk. These days nobody seems to differentiate from maternity vs paternity leave, which is a great idea because, aside from the value it provides fathers, it also gets rid of the idea that the mother should get more time because mothers should be more involved. (alas, you can argue that it ignores the physical sacrifices the mot…

Google has a cool system where everyone with a new child gets (very long and equal) parental leave. If you physically give birth, you get extra time for preparation and recovery (e.g. men and women adopting, etc. don’t get it). I think this is a good way to recognize the extra burden of parents who give birth while being fair on the parenting front.

Seems weird to discriminate against adoptive parents... I understand the reasoning but seems weird. It would probably be better to have a medical policy applicable to everyone.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#40

Post by jschwartzi »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #15
delbel wrote: post #6

I was trying to understand andrewclunn now dead comment below. Basically he was saying there was no need for the author of the article (not the study) to write "toxic masculinity" narrative. When I clicked on the PDF, to scan for the word "toxic" I was unable to open the PDF. Did the author of the article Jon McBride artificially put this narrative spin on the study? If so, I don't understand why somebody would do th…

Probably something to do with this: >The study also showed a correlation between fathers who exhibit negative aspects of traditional masculinity and fathers who are less involved with their children. >“It’s important to understand what masculinity is and is not,” Shafer said. “In some circles, when people hear terms like hegemonic or toxic masculinity, they think those are attacking all men. Not so. There are some ve…

The frustrating thing for me is that hiding emotion, physical aggression, and detached relationships are associated with masculinity at all. For men who don't like those things it's basically saying they're not men.
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