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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#891

Post by MoBattah »

brianwawok wrote: post #142
CodeCube wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a massive point right here ... there is so much talent, either already in "far flung" parts of the country; or currently in a place like SF, but who long to move "back home" for any number of reasons. Having startups be more remote-friendly by default would be a huge boon for everyone involved.

Sounds like you should found a remote friendly startup! Plenty of money floating around. Find another remote friendly guy and go to town! Seems how most remote friendly places have started...

Pick me!

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#892

Post by let_var »

bittcto wrote: post #635
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

TLDR: 30 years experience, I learned: don’t go work for a SV style startup. Be a founder, even if you have no experience. Don’t take VC money for more than %10 of your equity in total. Better off, right out of school, founding a company and failing than working for a startup, especially if they take VC. It’s lopsided against the founders too. They might walk away with big checks but the risk is too high. This is the…

Agreed. Yesterday, I replied back with similar sentiments. I was immediately down voted. I second that theory of yours where all the risk seems rational when you are one of the founders.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#893

Post by icedchai »

rosser wrote: post #889
icedchai wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is Employee #1 should’ve asked for more. 1% isn’t enough. Maybe 5 or 10% is.

Yes, let's blame the person that structurally has less power in the dynamic for having that power imbalance used against them. Of course you can try to negotiate for more. Enough people want to work at a startup however that if you ask too much, you'll get passed on, and they'll just hire the next candidate who doesn't act so entitled to a meaningful piece of the founders' pie. It's exactly the same phenomenon that l…

Let them take the worse candidate then. The startup is probably going to fail anyway. Jobs are easier to find than good engineers, especially your first few engineers. That requires taking a leap.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#895

Post by RangerScience »

Bjartr wrote: post #438
RangerScience wrote: post #38

In terms of how to move the needle for early employees, at my prior (and first) startup, I watched us go from 15-20 employees to >300. One of the interesting things that struck me was how much advisement/mentor/training/etc investment went into the founders/C-team, and how little went into all the rest of us. (Totally reasonable that this was a situational thing, but I don't think it is). There's fame and reputation…

> One of the interesting things that struck me was how much advisement/mentor/training/etc investment went into the founders/C-team Can you give a sense of how much that might be?

Offsites, speaking gigs, trainings - but really, time with people (in this case, the investors/advisors) that can really coach (or straight role-model) you into being that much more amazing. I can't quantify thing-over-time both because this was an anecdotal impression, and because it was a decently long time ago.

You invest money in successful ventures, and they snowball; people invest themselves in other successful people, and you also snowball.

PS - Also just getting invited to meet other interesting people. It's suprising-not-suprising how much of an effect that has on yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#896

Post by webmaven »

heurist wrote: post #837
ianamartin wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great for you. It's pretty bad for any employees who have to pay for your mistakes as you get your personal growth on and skip career ladders. I think being a founder is a great option right out of school--if you are working for yourself, responsible for your own mistakes, and not actively harming anyone else in your quest for personal achievement.

FWIW I've worked with "experienced" founders who also had no idea what they were doing (in many but not all ways). There's never a guarantee that you won't be working for people who will make you deal with their mistakes.

Heck, there is no guarantee that you won't be working for someone like that in any type of company, regardless of "maturity" or sector.

Bad managers (and most bad management - from death marches to protoduction - can be boiled down to "makes the people who report to them pay for the manager's mistakes") exist even in supposedly mature companies with good corporate cultures.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#897

Post by webmaven »

CamTin wrote: post #799
goatherders wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can start a business, and anyone should. The things you mentioned - "pivoting" "overcoming powerful rivals" - goodness. How about simply starting a business that earns more money then it spends. Do that and you will learn most any lesson you need to know about being a "founder."

The economics of internet-scale software businesses make this harder than opening a hardware store and selling nails and rope for more than they cost from the wholesaler. It often does require lots of risk capital. If you don't have it, you need a rich partner who does. If you don't know any rich people that want to go into business with you, you need to employ people who provide this service at a price -- and often…

> It's possible to build "boutique" scale internet software businesses, but it's harder than ever,

Can you expand a bit on the "harder than ever" point? I've observed a couple of phase changes since the 90s, but I don't think I've seen that particular needle move very much in the past ten years.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#898

Post by webmaven »

biztos wrote: post #372
acconrad wrote: post #129

I was the first engineer at a TechStars startup that did have a successful exit (I was there about 5 years before the exit). If there is something I want YC to know, it's this: You helped create the culture of founder empowerment. You have the power to evolve that narrative to those that sacrifice as early employees. Tell the world that early employees deserve a lot more equity. Tell the world that early employees co…

What's an "early employee" for you? (That is, who gets "a lot more equity?") I ask because I've noticed with some high-dollar acquisitions a lot of times "engineer #50" makes his/her "F-You Money" on the acquisition, but having been "engineer #2" and "#4" and even "#1" (sadly, no big exits) I am skeptical that #50 took on much more risk or contributed more than, say, #200.

#2-#9 (roughly) are taking on more financial risk (this corresponds to the startup's market risk).

#50 is probably being hired for very specific skills and experience (to mitigate technical risk) that increases their opportunity cost considerably, and you aren't going to get an engineer with a track record of scaling operations like yours unless they get a decent salary and a shot at a significant upside.

For certain skillsets and track records, when a startup is having severe growing pains, it becomes a sellers' market.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#899

Post by webmaven »

GoatOfAplomb wrote: post #572
joshe wrote: post #138

This is such a great area to work on. The equity side is pretty rough. Founders are very sensitive about disclosing important information about company performance. They are sensitive about disclosing the cap table. Some will share info with investors that they don't share with employees. And they are sometimes trying to pitch optimistically and leaving out items that don't fit the narrative. So you end up with a ver…

Agreed re: transparency. I've had startups refuse to share what even the current valuation was (edit: even when actually presenting an offer!), let alone who has preferences and convertible notes and such. If I'm taking a substantial cut in liquid comp compared to BigCorp, I can't just treat equity as a happy little upside. I need to understand exactly what terms it is subject to. As for equity amounts - if I have to…

I've interviewed at places that wouldn't even disclose how long their runway was. I've even gone to work at one company that claimed a six-month runway and then ran out of money after six weeks.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#900

Post by webmaven »

RangerScience wrote: post #38

In terms of how to move the needle for early employees, at my prior (and first) startup, I watched us go from 15-20 employees to >300. One of the interesting things that struck me was how much advisement/mentor/training/etc investment went into the founders/C-team, and how little went into all the rest of us. (Totally reasonable that this was a situational thing, but I don't think it is). There's fame and reputation…

> the guy running the panel "didn't want individual contributors".

That may be a reasonable requirement, depending on the panel topic.

But note: Plenty of EEs aren't individual contributors! An EE can be a "team lead" for example. Basically if you have any responsibility for directing or managing other people, you are already not an IC.

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