Live data from Hacker News

Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

121–130 of 240 posts

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#121
post #98
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mental health" and "making an effort" are two dangerous terms to combine in the same argument. Just getting out of bed every morning can already be a big effort for many people with mental health problems, much bigger effort than exercise is for many sane folks; it should be appreciated as such.

Your point is taken, but one must remember that in the end we are all of us responsible for our own lives. There's a reason why people who lift joke that the heaviest weight in the gym is the front door. One approach that has worked well for many is establishing positive habits to displace negative ones. That takes a while, but there are tricks to help, like having a group to hold you accountable.

Accountability works for procrastination and things that, as you say, can be described as negative habits or character traits. Depression is a completely different beast.

Depression is like I'm sitting on your chest and tell you that breathing is easy and all you need is to do it rhythmically.

Depression is like that day your brain doesn't function properly after not sleeping during the night, but every day for years and regardless how much you sleep.

Depression is not a bad habit, just like the flu is not a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#122
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Questioning everything is also child-like. It's more of a normal adult quality to learn what lines of questioning prove fruitful and what do not.

Its not so much questioning everything that is childlike, instead that would be not knowing enough to avoid talking about it with people who don't know or care.

I don't think that's true. Think about the adjectives associated with curiosity and wonder - 'childlike' definitely comes to mind. 'Interest' is an adult word, though - that implies a trajectory and a path, where curiosity and wonder are general.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#123
post #15

I’m really worried about the subset of the population with preexisting mental disorders such as manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and depression who will suffer a psychotic break from the use of these substances. Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve heard and read it seems like there’s no way to know what will happen until you try it. A certain percentage of the population goes to hell in the most literal sens…

I have permanent visual disturbances and suffered long-term panic attacks and anxiety as a result of psychedelic use. Things got better over time, but not completely back to normal. I'm not advocating for the continuation of our current legal strategy, but I feel like these drugs need to come with strong cultural wisdom about their appropriate use and potential for abuse.

Anyone who's been in a psychedelic community for long(stoners, deadheads, etc) knows at least a few people who have been temporarily(1 day - 1 year) or permanently fried from having experienced one or many trips. I feel like there is often a backlash against our regressive legal approach which tends to accentuate the positives and diminish the negatives but really we need information. These drugs can permanently change your personality in some ways that will generally not be seen as positive. Yes, they can have many good effects but that comes with a small risk of extreme side effects.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#124
post #30

So, precisely the wrong approach would be to block research of any kind by continuing the severe prohibition of these substances.

Perhaps we need a new category of prescription, e.g. "for use only under direct supervision of a qualified medical professional" In other words it could be dispensed in a clinical setting, but not via a pharmacy or other "take home" pathways. I'm thinking that must already exists for certain surgical anesthetics, etc.

Loosening the restrictions on the DEA Diversion program would accomplish this - there is a set quota of how much of each scheduled substance can be used for research each year.

Unfortunately, this is likely politically challenging as the DEA has a strong self-interest incentive to make drug laws as restrictive as possible, so they can get more funding and successfully prosecute more people.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#125
post #30

So, precisely the wrong approach would be to block research of any kind by continuing the severe prohibition of these substances.

Perhaps we need a new category of prescription, e.g. "for use only under direct supervision of a qualified medical professional" In other words it could be dispensed in a clinical setting, but not via a pharmacy or other "take home" pathways. I'm thinking that must already exists for certain surgical anesthetics, etc.

Such a medical-use-only approach towards legal psychedelic use is indeed what we're moving towards. However, this approach is a controversial one in the psychedelic community.

There is a cognitive liberty argument to be made for the use of psychedelics (and all other drugs), namely that one should be free to alter one's consciousness as one sees fit, for whatever reasons one sees fit, without restriction.

Medical use is one legitimate use, but use as a sacrament for religious purposes is another, and so is use just for personal enjoyment.

Most people don't generally object to someone drinking alcohol for personal enjoyment (or using it as a religious sacrament, for that matter). One does not have to justify one's use of alcohol to anyone, one does not need to have a doctor's permission to use it, nor does one have to take it in a clinical setting. Despite the consequences of alcohol abuse arguably being much worse than psychedelic abuse, no one is seriously considering placing these kinds of restrictions on it.

It's true that too many people use psychedelics in frivolous, even destructive ways, and suffer negative consequences as a result. But I'm not sure if the best solution is to limit them to use under a doctor's supervision, as it narrows the potential of psychedelics and directs the narrative towards a medicalizing one: that the only legitimate use of drugs is medical. I'm not sure that's true. Drugs could be positively used towards for creative purposes, for enhancing love, for appreciating nature or one's own life, to enhance one's connection with others, independently of therapy.

I'm not sure if everyone's ready for that... we certainly need a lot more education on how to use drugs constructively rather than destructively. But if prohibition has taught us anything it's that people that want to will use drugs regardless of any artificial restrictions put on by the state. So perhaps the most constructive way forward is towards full legalization plug increased education and the offer of help for those that need it.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#126
post #105

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients, and unless you plan to have people tripping with a therapist who is a complete stranger ( not advised! ) you're going to need to charge for some preliminary sessions. If a typical therapist charges $100 per hour -- and that's optimistic, in fact I've never paid less than $125 -- then the cost of treatment quickly runs into four figures. That…

The cost is something to consider, but let that not dissuade us from exploring the opportunity. There are many therapies that are covered by insurance due to their medical backing. Insurance companies would rather pay for life-saving procedures that are hundreds of dollars rather than trauma, end of life care, or life insurance payouts. The evidence needs to be persuasive, though.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#127
post #92

Highly recommended: The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide, by Jim Fadiman ( http://www.psychedelicexplorersguide.com/ )

This is an excellent book, and I second its recommendation. I'd also recommend The Secret Chief Revealed[1], about Leo Zeff, an early psychedelic therapist.

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Chief-Revealed-Myron-Stolaroff...

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#128
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that's just insulting for the sake of being insulting. I said if they cannot find the time for exercise, then that is the bigger hurtle they should overcome. Likely, that's the key contributor to their mental health problem over not being able to do a few push ups at night.

>I said if they cannot find the time for exercise, then that is the bigger hurtle they should overcome. Likely, that's the key contributor to their mental health problem Oh, I see! You're proposing fixing the widening class gap in most western countries. Sign me up!

Sure, why don't you start by donating every cent above the median national wage.

Then we'll all follow your example.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#129
post #105

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients, and unless you plan to have people tripping with a therapist who is a complete stranger ( not advised! ) you're going to need to charge for some preliminary sessions. If a typical therapist charges $100 per hour -- and that's optimistic, in fact I've never paid less than $125 -- then the cost of treatment quickly runs into four figures. That…

"The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients"

Not necessarily. Under some insurance plans under Medi-Cal (the California Medicaid program), you get unlimited therapy (once a week) for free.

I strongly recommend that anyone who qualifies for Medi-Cal (ie. if your income is low enough) investigate this option, if you are looking for therapy. You actually get your own choice of therapists, as long as they accept your insurance plan.

Also, when choosing health insurance plans, make sure to take a look at how much therapy they cover. You might be surprised. Some plans definitely cover much more than others.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#130
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clinical setting is far different than giving someone some tabs and letting them loose at a concert or house party.

A clinic, concert, or house party are all terrible settings for taking LSD. They are confined, crowded spaces. You want something wide open, in nature. Try the mountains, or the desert.

Well, just don't get lost. I've taken LSD hundreds of times and the worst was undoubtedly in nature (it was my fault, but I'm sure I'm not the first to make this mistake). I've done it plenty of times at house parties and it's been fine. My objection to a "clinical setting" is being alone with someone you don't know that well, and like you said, being confined and expected / forced to stay with that person.
Post reply on HN