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Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

101–110 of 240 posts

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#101
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't break the site guideline against name-calling in arguments, and please especially don't take threads into religious flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry. I corrected my comment. Can you uncensor it ? Besides there is no "name calling" against the author of the post.

I know and appreciate that, but what we're trying to avoid is using pejoratives (which 'psychosis' is in this context) to make an argument louder without adding information. That's why that site guideline is written the way it is. It's about more than just avoiding personal attacks, though you're right that that's the most important thing to avoid.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#103
post #66

The possibilities for psychedelic drugs to treat and shed insight into mental health issues are exciting. But I think it's worth pointing out (especially if you are a recreational user or are considering it) that we don't understand the side effects very well. Low resolution, we know they don't kill you or lead to addiction (though they can cause problems in people with underlying mental health problems). But I'm con…

The risk of HPPD seems to be very related to frequency of use, dosage, how strongly the substance binds to the receptor, and the anxiety levels of the person taking it. It's a risk that should be taken very seriously, but if you're just taking a low dose of mushrooms once a year or so it's not a huge risk.

This is a tough subject. Like the first link in GP's post notes, HPPD can't really be caused by LSD persisting in the body. The article presents another hypothesis, where LSD might kill off important neurons. But LSD and other psychedelics have been taken by millions of people, and the odds of getting HPPD seem fairly low, although significant.

Is it reasonable to assume a direct chemical action as the cause here? We accept that e.g. PTSD results from experienced trauma, and psychedelics like LSD can certainly induce very intense mental states. Could that not be enough to explain "flashbacks" etc?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#104
post #92

Highly recommended: The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide, by Jim Fadiman ( http://www.psychedelicexplorersguide.com/ )

If you're interesting in taking psychedelics, this is the best book to read beforehand. I seem to remember Neal Goldsmith's Psychedelic Healing book also being good, but it's been too long since I've read it.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#105

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

The trouble is that talk therapy is already too expensive for most patients, and unless you plan to have people tripping with a therapist who is a complete stranger (not advised!) you're going to need to charge for some preliminary sessions. If a typical therapist charges $100 per hour -- and that's optimistic, in fact I've never paid less than $125 -- then the cost of treatment quickly runs into four figures.

That's already more expensive than a year on SSRIs, as crazy as that might sound. Human interaction is shockingly expensive.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#106
post #54
post #53

Could be, maybe, let's just wait until thousands more die because they were denied access to these illegal drugs. Then we'll publish some "new" findings and maybe in 30 years, the filthy peasants will be allowed to use drugs under extreme supervision.

Could you please not post indignant rant-style comments like this to Hacker News? It isn't that you're wrong, but that the genre does more damage to the forum than the rightness of the comment does good. A lot more, actually, so we need people to just not do this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Hmm yeah, shadowban this account then I won't post anymore, at all. I'd be really grateful, too.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#107
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"questioning why tuesdays exist" I don't see a problem with this line of questioning. There is lots interesting to consider there. Just some stream of thought: What does tuesday mean anyway, why do we have weeks, why 7 days per week, what is the exact definition of day, could there be planets without "days", do dogs recognize a weekly cycle, would they if "freerunning" without human companionship, what about wolves…

It’s incredibly mentally exhausting and you’ll miss several things that flag you as a comfortable human being in your own existence to others, thereby shortening your ability to function as a socially wholesome creature. (Note: I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting.)

>"I have an illness on the schizophrenia spectrum that works in a way requiring me to thoroughly examine fundamental aspects of reality. It is utterly exhausting."

Being forced to do anything will be exhausting, it is totally different from having the ability to do so if you so choose.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#108

I recommend reading "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan if you're all interested in the history and details of psychedelics. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y... Based my reading of that, what these researchers are doing is not prescribing psychedelics to patients with mental disorders and giving the whole "take one time a day with food". What these researchers are finding is that t…

What is the effect size of the randomized controlled trial for psychedelic therapy?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#109
post #52
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clinical setting sounds like a total nightmare when using psychedelics.

I'm not talking about a sterile windowless room with bright lights and various people walking in and out telling you to do things. More like a therapy setup, similar to how they're experimenting with MDMA. Someone who knows what they are doing guiding things, helping you explore your mind. LSD is probably not the best drug for this simply because it lasts for so long, but guided trips using psilocybin are definitely…

"I'm not talking about a sterile windowless room with bright lights and various people walking in and out telling you to do things. More like a therapy setup, similar to how they're experimenting with MDMA. Someone who knows what they are doing guiding things, helping you explore your mind."

Indeed. I highly recommend reading "The Secret Chief Revealed"[1], about Leo Zeff, a pioneering psychedelic therapist. His "clinic" was not a hospital with whitewashed walls, but more like a cozy apartment (it might have even been his apartment.. I don't have the book on hand myself right now). Here's an excerpt from the book that I wrote down. It doesn't talk about the setting much, but reveals some of his approach:

"Zeff did not like to refer to psychedelics as "drugs" rather "medicine". It could be used properly or improperly, just as morphine or antibiotics. Working as a Jungian therapist Zeff believed he was there to basically assist his clients in finding their own solutions, more of less waiting it out. With LSD the solutions came much quicker, often with a single trip. In therapeutic use of LSD Zeff had his clients agree to a basic set of rules: 1. they would not leave the house or place where the trip was taking place without his permission, 2. they agreed that there would be no physical harm or violence to them, him or anyplace they were, 3. reiterate the security agreement - they must agree that they will never reveal to anybody else where and with whom they had the experience without his prior approval, 4. there would be no sex during the experience, 5. the client had to agree to follow Zeffs directions no matter what, the client had to agree to follow his commands without question and have faith in him. Prior to taking the medicine they would then read a prayer aloud. The clients were asked to bring in photographs of family and important people and places in their lives as well as personal articles which would stimulate a therapeutic conversation which would take place prior to the effects of the medicine. Once the medicine took effect the client would lie down, put a cover over their eyes and headphones on so that they could listen to music.

"Music was played the entire time during the experience. Zeff believed this to be very important. This is one area in which I wish the conversation/text had delved deeper. The music which was considered so important is barely discussed other than to say that it was always on. It is mentioned that the music would very based upon the clients tastes, the impression I get is that classical or jazz were the main genres."

Here is the beginning of a much more recent account of psychedelic therapy (I encourage reading the full article[2], as it is excellent), the methodology of which is clearly influenced either by Zeff or other early psychedelic therapy pioneers:

"When Mettes arrived at the treatment room, at First Avenue and Twenty-fifth Street, Tony Bossis and Krystallia Kalliontzi, his guides, greeted him, reviewed the day’s plan, and, at 9 A.M., presented him with a small chalice containing the pill. None of them knew whether it contained psilocybin or the placebo. Asked to state his intention, Mettes said that he wanted to learn to cope better with the anxiety and the fear that he felt about his cancer. As the researchers had suggested, he’d brought a few photographs along--of Lisa and him on their wedding day, and of their dog, Arlo--and placed them around the room.

"At nine-thirty, Mettes lay down on the couch, put on the headphones and eye mask, and fell silent."

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Chief-Revealed-Myron-Stolaroff...

[2] - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of HPPD seems to be very related to frequency of use, dosage, how strongly the substance binds to the receptor, and the anxiety levels of the person taking it. It's a risk that should be taken very seriously, but if you're just taking a low dose of mushrooms once a year or so it's not a huge risk.

This is a tough subject. Like the first link in GP's post notes, HPPD can't really be caused by LSD persisting in the body. The article presents another hypothesis, where LSD might kill off important neurons. But LSD and other psychedelics have been taken by millions of people, and the odds of getting HPPD seem fairly low, although significant. Is it reasonable to assume a direct chemical action as the cause here? We…

> Is it reasonable to assume a direct chemical action as the cause here

I don't think so. There might be a chemical cause, but to me the correlation with anxiety makes it more likely that it's a state-shifting phenomenon, more like depression.

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