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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#241

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

expertentipp wrote: post #215
swimorsinka wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to this. 10 years ago you couldn't make 400K at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Now you can. Startups made a lot more sense when your opportunity cost was 50-150K per year.

> 10 years ago you couldn't make 400K at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Now you can. > when your opportunity cost was 50-150K per year. That's why Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, etc are not attractive at all in Europe.

Can you elaborate? My impression was that they still pay very well, while the startup scene is much less hot than in Silicon Valley.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#242

Post by CryoLogic »

dmode wrote: post #114
ryandrake wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take that view with a huge grain of salt. Nobody is denying that someone, somewhere is making $400k as a software engineer, but we are talking outlier employees at outlier companies. You’re not getting this as a medium level rank and file engineer, or at a non-FAANG company. This whole “software engineers make $400k” trope seems to have taken on a life of its own. Every time salary comes up here, these guys come out…

FAANG + Microsoft + Uber + Airbnb hire thousands and thousands of engineers in the Valley and Seattle every year. 400K is L5-L6 salary (senior engineer, first level manager). There are a TON of engineers making that money. They are not really outliers, and FAANGMUA is also not really outlier considering Google itself has 80K employees and Amazon and MSFT have over 200K employees.

400k is an outlier for sr engineer or 1st level manager. Most all of them fall into 200-300/yr in the valley or Seattle at those companies.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#243

Post by CryoLogic »

aphextron wrote: post #6
nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

>The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. I can second this. But it's not just the m…

I worked at a large Seattle startup (~300 people post Series A), with "unlimited PTO" and only had 5 days approved the entire year.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#244

Post by coaxial »

dunpeal wrote: post #158
nieksand wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core of a "fix" is here. If I were building an engineering org today I'd either go remote-only or build it somewhere which is not SFO/SEA/NYC and friends. An underwhelming bay area compensation package puts you at absolute top-of-market in most European cities. So Y-Combinator can help companies get out of dodge immediately after raising a seed round. For recruiting, warm up a pipeline of talented enginee…

> If I were building an engineering org today I'd either go remote-only There's a reason why so few startups go the remote-only route. How many remote-only startups ended up a success? I can't recall a single remote-only unicorn, for example. > For recruiting, warm up a pipeline of talented engineering managers outside the tiny handful of overheated areas in the US. Finding good engineering talent anywhere is hard. Y…

> How many remote-only startups ended up a success? I can't recall a single remote-only unicorn, for example.

What's the ratio of remote only companies to not remote? A fraction of a tiny number will be tiny.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#246

Post by poulsbohemian »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22

Having not worked in the Valley or a startup, I can say the biggest con to me is a lack of stability. You can get a job at BigCo or even MediumSizedButBeenAroundTwoDecadesCo and be reasonably sure you'll still have a job... as long as you want to work there. But with a startup, either they run out of money and you lose your job, they pivot and don't need you and you lose your job, or they get acquired and you very li…

For what it is worth, I tried this business model, IE: consulting focused on startups. Problem was, startups by and large are grossly undercapitalized, have huge business swings, and often you are dealing with first-time entrepreneurs who have no idea what things cost or how long they will take, but also aren't willing to be educated (because they are scared and there is a lot of risk). Point being - it's hard to sell services successfully to that kind of customer.

I should point out too that many investors want to see a team of employees, because they are investing in the strength of the personnel. So they didn't like this idea of a startup built using contract / outside talents.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#247

Post by Qworg »

sjg007 wrote: post #220
dbuxton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US healthcare is clearly a huge barrier to older employees joining startups. At my company we have a great selection of healthcare that's fairly affordable both for employees and the company. I think it's as good or better than any packages I've seen from big brand-name enterprises. However, as a European founder, I was shocked by the complexity and effort that went into the comparison shopping necessary to get anyth…

This is true but the logical implication then is why are there not more startups in Europe/Canada where healthcare is "free"..

Other barriers to entry than healthcare - labor laws, cultural issues, venture availability, and more.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#248

Post by sidlls »

inimino wrote: post #218
shamino wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I joined a moderately successful startup (good acquisition where founders made > $1 m) and the rewards were not worth the risks as an early employee. Also, the RSUs are low risk, high rewards at the "usual suspects". Unless you love working on a small team with more autonomy, but without comfortable resources and losing sleep over whether your company will be there next week, I just don't see the attraction of…

> Why do founders get over 10x early employees? Because founders take at least 100x the risk of an early employee, and 100x the personal risk and commitment. Founders generally aren't getting paid (at least until revenue or significant funding comes through) and they have 100x the impact that an early employee does on the success of the company. If an early employee doesn't work out, the founders just replace that pe…

"Because founders take at least 100x the risk of an early employee, and 100x the personal risk and commitment."

The risk part of this isn't remotely true in many cases,or rather it's offset by so many other benefits accruing to them. Founders generally are drawing at least a small salary and, in this context (YC/VC funded) they are not necessarily risking much if any of their own capital. Moreover they are benefitting in ways early employees don't (e.g. social/network connections).

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#249

Post by inimino »

modeless wrote: post #223
nugget wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math on this is even more direct, as you can take the differential in salary and invest directly into early stage companies that interest you, trading technical advising for access to seed rounds. You often end up with more equity (on better terms) than you would have had as an early employee, with less risk.

I am interested in this. Where does one find these opportunities for early stage investment?

Hang around startup accelerators, and if you have some special expertise you can offer, and you have an interest in early-stage investment, people will seek you out.
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