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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#141

Post by thruflo22 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22

Having not worked in the Valley or a startup, I can say the biggest con to me is a lack of stability. You can get a job at BigCo or even MediumSizedButBeenAroundTwoDecadesCo and be reasonably sure you'll still have a job... as long as you want to work there. But with a startup, either they run out of money and you lose your job, they pivot and don't need you and you lose your job, or they get acquired and you very li…

This is a very good idea and is something that venture builders and value add accelerators do.

For example (here in the UK) Founders Factory and Forward Partners both maintain large stables of designers, developers and other specialist executors that they assign to their portfolio companies.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#142

Post by brianwawok »

CodeCube wrote: post #109
driverdan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few YC startups allow remote work and a large percentage are in expensive areas like the bay.

This is such a massive point right here ... there is so much talent, either already in "far flung" parts of the country; or currently in a place like SF, but who long to move "back home" for any number of reasons. Having startups be more remote-friendly by default would be a huge boon for everyone involved.

Sounds like you should found a remote friendly startup!

Plenty of money floating around. Find another remote friendly guy and go to town!

Seems how most remote friendly places have started...

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#143

Post by Karrot_Kream »

nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

This gets even more exacerbated as you become more experienced. Most startups I find seem to be quite averse to having Senior or above titles, which is fine (desirable for some, even), but then offer comp that doesn't really scale with experience in any meaningful way. It makes little-to-no sense to work for a startup when they only offer you 50% of the total comp of FAANG, being a non-founder.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#144

Post by zpallin »

I've been working at startups -- small and medium -- exclusively since I got in the field. I don't know if I'd have it any other way. When I visit my friends at the big companies, something about the rigidness and massiveness feels cold and out of touch. I like being able to see my CEO on a daily basis and have a relationship with him.

I think that's worth it to me, because unlike a lot of people, I'm not in this field for the money as much as it's just something I love doing. I spend my free time writing code whether or not I'm getting paid. At a big company, I suppose I can accomplish the same, but the difference is that I am afraid I will not know to what end my software is being used, while working at a startup I know exactly how everything fits together.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#145

Post by jboy55 »

shamino wrote: post #8
nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

This. I joined a moderately successful startup (good acquisition where founders made > $1 m) and the rewards were not worth the risks as an early employee. Also, the RSUs are low risk, high rewards at the "usual suspects". Unless you love working on a small team with more autonomy, but without comfortable resources and losing sleep over whether your company will be there next week, I just don't see the attraction of…

Just be warned, a startup often has the promise of more autonomy, but there are plenty of startups run by ego-centric micromanaging wanna-be engineers. Be careful equating, 'being able to talk to the CEO' as autonomy, you may find yourself having to explain your decisions/code to people who's engineering skills are 'being able to convince a VC to give them money'. You'll also probably not tackle 'large problems' but hack and slash a Node/Django/React app into meeting an MVP.

Choose wisely.

That being said, I'd go for a startup if you want to eventually run your own. There's so much you'll learn from seeing things actually occur that you'll never learn from anywhere else.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#146

Post by kwindla »

shamino wrote: post #52
nautilus12 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't echo this enough, I have been going from startup to startup most of my career and I am about burned out and have almost nothing to show for it financially. I am ready to work with a big player from now on. I wish someone would have told me steer clear of startups unless I was a founder.

The problem is that since we are drawn to startups, we tend to read material about startup by startups. And startups would never say joining one is bad, since they need employees. And they would never make it easily known that founders get most of the benefits here. They throw things around like "great culture" and "office perks" but at the end of the day, they walk away with millions and you walk away wiser. Saying…

I'm a startup founder and will happily say that if you are an engineer, in Silicon Valley, in 2018, and you are maximizing for income, then you should not work at an early-stage startup.

I did some hand-wavy math, here: https://medium.com/@kwindla/what-kind-of-silicon-valley-comp...

Dan Luu did some, too, here: https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#147

Post by cm2187 »

justboxing wrote: post #94
john_moscow wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the open secret is that in 2018 most people who go work for startups are those who simply couldn't get a better offer from one of the big players.

This.

Stupid question. What does “this” means? (“what does this means” isn’t really googleable).

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#148

Post by dbuxton »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4
nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

Entirely accurate. At a startup, I expect to make ~$100k/year, have mediocre insurance and work life balance, and underwhelming equity ( Unless you’re a founder, I actively steer colleagues away from working at a startup. The sense of accomplishment, impact, or whatever the feel good term is, isn’t worth shorting yourself on significant comp for years (while founders and funds are getting almost all the upside). Edit…

US healthcare is clearly a huge barrier to older employees joining startups.

At my company we have a great selection of healthcare that's fairly affordable both for employees and the company. I think it's as good or better than any packages I've seen from big brand-name enterprises. However, as a European founder, I was shocked by the complexity and effort that went into the comparison shopping necessary to get anything other than expensive, poor coverage. The quality of what's out there from JustWorks, Gusto, Zenefits et al was frankly shocking - and they are feted as "making it all easy and affordable". (We use Trinet which although in many ways antediluvian has very, very good health options at least for NY).

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#149

Post by wtvanhest »

Hi Jared, I'd advise you and your team to take a hard look at GIPS (global investment performance standards) and create a similar model for startup equity packages.

Call it whatever, but the standards would have employee friendly terms so that people joining early stage companies would actually get something if the company liquidates.

Little stuff like recruiters need to not say stuff like "we are already valued at X, so that is great"... wut?

Or...

Big stuff like: 7 year option excersize term instead of 3 months. (Gross).

No one who understands the asymmetry of joining a startup would do it. Only people who dont know any better.

This is your opportunity to use YCs power to get people interested again.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#150

Post by toomuchtodo »

Kratisto wrote: post #128
toomuchtodo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happiness doesn’t provide good health care to my wife and kids, or help me retire years earlier (I get to save >$100k/year because we live in a low cost of living area). I suggest a hobby if you want to be happy, as well as time with your family and loved ones. Be careful about those who offer you emotional fulfillment or purpose in your job. There’s always a cost.

So do you work remote to live in a low cost of living area? Just curious how many big salary opportunities are in low cost of living areas.

I work remote because I demand flexibility. I live within 20 minutes of one of my org's offices, but prefer the ability to work from where ever I want. I just happen to enjoy the low cost of living locale I live in.
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