USB Type-C is still a mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#81

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:47 PM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #5

I have 3 dongles and one power plugged into my macbook pro right now (ethernet could be optional, external monitor, USB, power). Maybe there will be a nice docking station sometime, but for now, it's dongle city, and picking up the laptop a bit to connect/disconnect each one every time I transition between mobile and desktop-replacement. Maybe something like https://nerdtechy.com/best-usb-c-docking-stations , though…

Maybe there will be a nice docking station sometime, but for now, it's dongle city, and picking up the laptop a bit to connect/disconnect each one every time I transition between mobile and desktop-replacement.

That's not unique to USB-C. My MacBook has no USB-C ports, just the previous gen. But right now has power, external hard drive, headphones, HDMI and a mouse plugged into it. When I transition to mobile, I'll have to unplug all of those, too.

As you note, a docking station would be the best solution, but it's just another piece of gear I don't want on my desk.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#82

Post by MBCook » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

imran3740 wrote: post #27

> Port shortages Would it hurt anyone to put two USB-C ports on a smartphone? Thank goodness my phone still has a 3.5mm jack, but some people would like to charge their phone and listen to (wired) audio without having to buy an adapter. And it's not like this is an uncommon use case either, anecdotally some of my friends with iPhones face this issue.

Would you really have a second USB-C port over just keeping the headphone jack?

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#83

Post by hinkley » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #2

I would like a USB-C hub that's like the USB-A hubs of yore: more than 2 USB-C ports, ideally 4 or more downstream facing ports. I saw one once that had 2 downstream ports and one upstream port, as well as several USB-A downstream ports, but I just want to transition fully to USB-C. Why are there no products for that, I wonder?

Have you tried using those '2 ports' on a USB-C 'hub'?

The ones I've tested, the second one is only useful for power in. You can't actually chain devices off the hub to reduce the number of things you have to plug in.

When USB-C was introduced it was finally a connector that could do power and all your data. The culmination of the idea that started with the Mac monitors with the single cable with 2 tails. No more ritual to go to or leave your desk, wearing out the connectors on all your peripherals.

But we're not there yet. At all.

Even Anker has fucked this up. I can't plug a USB keyboard into their top of the line hub if I plug the power supply into it. Probably because of the overvoltage problem discussed here a few weeks ago.

Since I stopped plugging the power into it I've had no problems. But now I'm back to plugging in 3 cables every time I come back from a meeting.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#84

Post by Latteland » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #20

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

USB-B? Do you mean USB-A? https://www.differencebtw.com/difference-between-usb-type-a-...

yeah, sorry, fixed.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#85

Post by Latteland » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

Milner08 wrote: post #73

Rebelgecko wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH literally everyone I know with the new MBP has this problem. They used to be able to use the HDMI port, but now they need a smattering of adapters for HDMI and minidisplayport. They also have trouble with the adapter not working when hotswapping ethernet cables

I just have a Thunderbolt 3 hub and it connects everything I need to a single port. Its actually much more convenient than before.

which one do you have? as reported in this discussion, it's not that uncommon to have problems.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#86

Post by tjoff » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

kjeetgill wrote: post #69

exmadscientist wrote: post #22

Speaking as someone in the industry who's worked on Type C-enabled gadgets, half the bloody problem is that the Type C products offered by the major semiconductor companies are _terrible_. For sake of a simple example, consider designing a rechargeable flashlight. For whatever reason, you'd like it to be rechargeable over a USB-C port. You also want the flashlight to charge as fast as possible from whatever power sou…

If an equivalent exists for USB 2.0, I'm surprised a company hasn't come it to sweep up the low hanging fruit. Why do you think that is? Is there something in the spec that's holding anyone back? or is it a chicken and egg problem where no one invests in Type C because no one has yet?

According to the spec a USB 2.0 to USB C cable must have a resistor that tells the USB C end to max deliver 0.5 A.

If another resistor is used to signal higher currents using that cable could fry peripherals that follow the USB 2.0 spec.

Also, I don't know much about USB 2.0 but I thought we had a whole slew of proprietary solutions for fast charging and all were incompatible with each other. So it was quite messy even before USB C came and made everything even worse.

For charging though you generally wan't to slow charge as it greatly reduces wear on batteries anyway.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#87

Post by ScottBurson » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

I have a new MacBook Pro, an external USB-C HDD for backup, and an Android portable music player, also with USB-C. I got a cable to connect the HDD to the MBP, and it works fine for that purpose, but when I use that cable to connect the PMP to the MBP, it doesn't work: the MBP doesn't mount the PMP's filesystem. But if I use a C-male-to-A-female adapter, then an A-to-C cable, the PMP mounts just fine. Anyone know why?

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#88

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #64

reaperducer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody I know using MacBooks has a particular problem with this. A dongle would be required in most cases to connect to an external display in any case; it's not like Apple are selling more dongles. Agreed. My wife has a MacBook with a single USB-C port. Having only one port has exactly zero impact on her. The only thing she uses it for is for charging, and very occasionally plugging in a tiny hard drive to look at h…

Apple's USB-C dongle is the least functional, most overpriced dongle there is. It has to have a huge margin.

Apple's USB-C dongle...

Which dongle do you mean? Apple has about five different USB-C dongles, each for a specific purpose.

Do you mean the $19 USB-C to old USB dongle? How is it less functional than any other USB-C to old USB dongle? It seems to achieve its stated purpose. What functionality do other USB-C to old USB dongles have that it lacks?

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#89

Post by hinkley » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

imran3740 wrote: post #27

> Port shortages Would it hurt anyone to put two USB-C ports on a smartphone? Thank goodness my phone still has a 3.5mm jack, but some people would like to charge their phone and listen to (wired) audio without having to buy an adapter. And it's not like this is an uncommon use case either, anecdotally some of my friends with iPhones face this issue.

Ever since the Palm V, I've wanted a handheld device with a second charging port built into the side. When LiPo batteries came into production I was hoping for the day where the flip cover had a supplemental battery built in instead of cardboard.

Apple went exactly the other way and built a data port into it. And did the same thing with the Apple Watch (the prototypes had an extra set of contacts in the band slot that people were excited about). Disappointed.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#90

Post by Latteland » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

abritinthebay wrote: post #44

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

> Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. Not really. The entry-grade MacBook is designed to be tiny and portable . One port that does everything fits with this philosophy (makes the laptop thinner and smaller and less complex - yes, it makes a surprisingly large difference). Want more? The MacBook Pro is for you then with 4 ports - all of which, as they are usb-c, are more multi-functional than usb-a (n…

Sure, I may be an edge case. But I come to work, I need to plug my laptop into power and my work monitor is a 4k tv, so I need to plug that in. Often I like to close the screen and just that monitor. They could at least put two of them on there.