USB Type-C is still a mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#11

Post by falcon620 » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

I guess this solidifies the more and more common view that Apple's thought leadership is something from the past.

A few years ago, the messaging was along the lines of "just wait, this will just be a temporary pain - Apple is just being brave and taking the industry leader role as usual".

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#12

Post by mfgmfg » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

phito wrote: post #6

The Nintendo Switch probably has the worst implementation of USB-C I've ever seen.

Did Nintendo even advertise it as being USB-C compliant? See https://plus.google.com/102612254593917101378/posts/2CUPZ5yV...

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#13

Post by frou_dh » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

For one thing, Lightning is smaller. That's not just a technicality from looking at Wikipedia. Its design is noticeably more compact and overall nicer in terms of real-world "feel".

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#14

Post by Latteland » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably to make it a little thinner. But like on a macbook pro laptop, having two usb-a's mean you can plug a mouse and keyboard into it. The new pixelbook needs an adapter for that.

edit: mixed up usb-a and -b. D'oh!

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#15

Post by sebazzz » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

In my experience the connector from Apple is far more reliable than USB C. USB C is a rounded flat rectangle with a piece of plastic in the center and pins between, which is small and can easily be damaged. Lightning on the other hand is a solid metal connector with the pins/contacts on the outside, which is much more sturdier. Lighting also does a nice "click" when connected.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#16

Post by ryzvonusef » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

jstimpfle wrote: post #4

ryzvonusef wrote: post #3

https://xkcd.com/927/ cycle of life

927 is also the number of times I have seen that comic linked here.

Sorry, it's just that...well this is the fact of life, isn't it?

Technologists ALL want standardization...but can't agree with themselves...and us consumers have to suffer.

It was true then, when this comic was released (I still have a USB mini cable somewhere), and it's true now.

Instead of trying for ONE universal standard... why not try for a "few" tiers of standards? That way instead of a zillion variations of USB-C, we have at most... five or six, perhaps.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#17

Post by dbg31415 » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

> USB Type-C’s complexity is undoubtedly its undoing. Although the idea of one cable to support everything sounds very useful, the reality has quickly become a convoluted combination of proprietary versus on-spec products, differing cable qualities and capabilities, and opaque feature support. The result is a standard that looks simple to use but quickly leads to consumer frustration as there is no clear indication why certain cables and features don’t work across devices.

Spot on.

And, in the decades it'll take to sort out, Apple will be able to bolt on and extra $250 per laptop in dongle fees. Genius.

* Steve Jobs Foretold the Downfall of Apple! - YouTube || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBma82g3Uag&t=0m40s

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#18

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

frou_dh wrote: post #13

MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

For one thing, Lightning is smaller. That's not just a technicality from looking at Wikipedia. Its design is noticeably more compact and overall nicer in terms of real-world "feel".

I understand Lightning is a worse connector because it places the “moving parts” (the bendable pins) in the recipient “female” socket in the host device which is subject to more wear-and-tear than the insertable plug which is on the cable which is more disposable.

USB-C corrects this by placing more of the mechanical complexity in the plug again - though I’m wary of the thin plastic “tongue” in the socket.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#19

Post by matthewmacleod » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic

This is on a single specific device.

The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-b

You mean USB-A.

Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles.

Nobody I know using MacBooks has a particular problem with this. A dongle would be required in most cases to connect to an external display in any case; it's not like Apple are selling more dongles.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#20

Post by theandrewbailey » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

USB-B? Do you mean USB-A?

https://www.differencebtw.com/difference-between-usb-type-a-...