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USB Type-C is still a mess

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Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#31

Post by oconnor663 »

MBCook wrote: post #9
phito wrote: post #6

The Nintendo Switch probably has the worst implementation of USB-C I've ever seen.

I don’t think they ever say it’s USB-C, we all just know it is. So they can claim things are damaging your device when they’re not Nintendo certified. I like Nintendo, but that’s a joke and a jerk move. They have a Tegra platform, why couldn’t they do it right?

To be fair, when companies try to avoid these problems by putting a physical bump in their not-entirely-compatible USB connectors, lots of other people scream bloody murder about how it's a conspiracy to force us all to buy more cables.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#32

Post by huebnerob »

There's two fundamentally unrelated but easily muddled situations here.

A) USB-C PD, USB-C audio, or even just straight-up USB-C data devices, and/or USB-C hosts not adhering to standards.

This is definitely a problem, but it's something that needs to be addressed by device manufacturers, not by the spec itself.

B) Protocols other than USB over the USB-C connector (Thunderbolt 3, Displayport, potentially analog audio output?) not being universally inter-compatible.

I don't see how this one is a real issue. Imagine for a moment that you had a magical morphing port that could be an audio jack, HDMI port, thunderbolt port, or USB port, and it just became whichever one it needed to be when you plugged something in. This is the situation we're in with USB-C multi-protocol, the port on the host device changes identity based on what it's connected to. That wouldn't mean that you could suddenly run your hard drive off a 3.5mm headphone cable.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#33

Post by rahoulb »

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

My Macbook Pro has 4 USB-Cs and I have a dongle for ethernet (which is rare).

If I'm using my external monitor I bought a DisplayPort to Thunderbolt/USB-C cable.

If I'm out and about and need HDMI, I have another dongle (but that's no different to my previous Mac which needed a dongle for HDMI as well)

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#34

Post by WhitneyLand »

MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

I don’t think that logic follows. Apple could’ve taken the scenarios into account and designed things in the way such that they weren’t issues. They’ve done it before many times even with standardized technologies.

For example, Air buds headphones (Bluetooth) work fine with Android phones. But Bluetooth has been a pain in peoples ass for a decade, and Apple went through a lot of trouble to make the experience very nice when used within its own ecosystem. without abandoning compatibility.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#35

Post by andrei_says_ »

MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

Looking at the last couple of years, I’d say “very Apple-y.” So unfortunate given they are the only large company in the space which prioritizes privacy.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#36

Post by orbitingpluto »

Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

Not having USB-C on my laptop doesn't even matter. The Google Pixels 1/2/C and Nexus 6P have USB-C, but they don't transfer data at that speed.

I also don't want to fry my devices however and I'm scared of these poor quality miswired cables, so I am a steadfast advocate of buying my USB-C cables from Anker.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#37

Post by sametmax »

And voip, and sharing files, sending encrypted emails, managing your contacts, taking notes on a computer, make a backup, simple photo edition, email clients, todo management, rss readers, deal with your encryption key, work in a terminal, packaging in Python...

I find it a good news: there is always something you can take as a mission. There is plenty of things to do.

And that's just the geeks stuff, not even talking about the important specie level issues.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#38

Post by WhitneyLand »

sebazzz wrote: post #15
MBCook wrote: post #7

“Why doesn’t Apple just get rid of Lightning and use USB-C on their iPhones!” This is why. Ignoring the momentum Lightning had from being a few years older, this is a great reason not to switch. Sadly I know this has become a big problem for people on the new Macs. Plug a USB-C hub in? Now that port doesn’t do Thunderbolt or Display Port. How do you know that? Trial and error. Very un-Appley.

In my experience the connector from Apple is far more reliable than USB C. USB C is a rounded flat rectangle with a piece of plastic in the center and pins between, which is small and can easily be damaged. Lightning on the other hand is a solid metal connector with the pins/contacts on the outside, which is much more sturdier. Lighting also does a nice "click" when connected.

I think we can consider that an implementation detail and that fragile connectors are not mandated or inherent to the specification. There are a lot of ways to skin the cat even within the constraints given.

Your concern is totally valid, but that it’s more about design/manufacturing quality rather than lightning versus USB.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#39

Post by mtgx »

The main issue here is that USB IF wanted to "please everyone" and had a very weak compliance process accompanied by a complex licensing scheme.

This is an idea created by their own hand. Hopefully there will be a Type-C 2.0 or something where everyone has to implement either all the specs or none of them. And all chargers and devices must be 100% compatible.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#40

Post by dmitrygr »

orbitingpluto wrote: post #36
Latteland wrote: post #14

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably…

Not having USB-C on my laptop doesn't even matter. The Google Pixels 1/2/C and Nexus 6P have USB-C, but they don't transfer data at that speed. I also don't want to fry my devices however and I'm scared of these poor quality miswired cables, so I am a steadfast advocate of buying my USB-C cables from Anker.

Pixel 2 does actually do usb 3 speeds if you have a usb 3 host and cable.
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