GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#131

Post by amasad » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #71

amasad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Programming is unprecedented in it's power for upwards class mobility. We're just scratching the surface. But it's the only thing we have that: a) doesn't require a lot of resources to make a meaningful contributions (access to a computer and the internet) that could land you a really good job. b) it's probably the only industry that doesn't requires formal education. Case in point, only one person at my comp…

Can you think of yourself as "fortunate"? People admire and respect those who acknowledge that things worked out well for them, that success isn't inevitable, and that there are many other talented people don't succeed for any number of reasons.

Read my other post. Be grateful. https://amasad.me/grateful

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#132

Post by alien_ » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

Nowadays most software depends on open source one way or another, and as developer you will eventually run into issues with the open source software that you depend on.

Also, larger companies internally operate much like an open source community, having multiple projects that accept contributions from anyone in the company.

Reporting and fixing public issues as part of your employment is a sign that you care about the ecosystem that you are part of, giving back rather than just benefiting from it.

It's not necessarily a showcase of your coding skills, because these contributions are usually small, but it shows that you will get your hands dirty if needed and fix the problem at the root, instead of hacking a workaround in your own code base. It also shows that you have no problem with learning a new code base and delivering code according to that project's quality standards.

If you don't have any public activity it may imply the opposite: that you are just freeloading your community, that you are prone to doing workarounds instead of fixing the problem upstream or that you are unable or reluctant to contribute to other projects.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#133

Post by duxup » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

Even compared to say 20+ years ago, it is amazing how many fully capable services and how much high quality and polished software is free.

I'm a former network guy who is learning web development. The amount of software I've installed is kinda crazy compared to what I used with networking. Everything I've used is free and crazy high quality, I haven't felt like I'm missing anything. In the networking world it is a lot of custom software and proprietary software. There are free options for some things but they're not nearly as polished or fully functional out of the gate.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#134

Post by LrnByTeach » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

very well said ..

> So its really not a matter of educated-enough. Its whether the will to perform is, through whatever means, inculcated - and then manifest by taking the actions to get the state of things, done.

> Some of the best developers I've ever worked with, have come from utterly dire circumstances. Some of the worst, too. Likewise for the privileged, candied elite.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#135

Post by JanisL » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

smonff wrote: post #55

Also, what about Stack Exchange profiles?

Speaking as someone who has been on there and posted a substantial number of answers I think the correlation between professional development skills is much stronger with open source contributions than "points" on a QA board.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#136

Post by grosjona » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

sanxiyn wrote: post #9

grosjona wrote: post #3

>> At this point, we've heard enough "rags to riches" stories in programming that it becomes difficult to dismiss this as simply "survivorship bias". I like the rest of the article but this statement is disturbing. There are plenty of great open source projects which never got off the ground in terms of popularity. Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity.

> Quality is not necessarily correlated with popularity. Eh, it definitely is correlated. Maybe you wanted to say correlation is not perfect?

There is a weak correlation at best.

One of my open source projects has almost 5K stars on Github so I should be preaching with the choir here but that would be disingenuous.

I think that a lot of it comes down to having perfect timing... The kind of timing that only dumb luck can deliver.

Building a decent quality project is just the baseline requirement...

Saying that project quality or usefulness is the determining factor to achieving popularity in open source is like saying that having a pair of legs is the determining factor to being qualified for the 100m sprint in the olympics.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#137

Post by beenBoutIT » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

duckduckno wrote: post #115

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

I've recently dropped out of highschool and I've been considering two options: promptly returning to school and finishing my degree or dedicating time to self-educate via the internet. Which pathway would you suggest? I have always felt conflicted about our current education system because it undervalues creativity and disingenuously puts forth the notion that school is for learning when clearly it is not. Teachers c…

Get on an independent study arrangement if your HS has one. These are extremely easy and will allow you plenty of time for self-paced technical education online. If that's not an option just go back and get your diploma BAMN. Teachers will generally work with you if you talk to them and make some kind of custom arrangement. I personally found HS extremely boring, so I finangled my way out of most of it. I disliked my school's PE uniform and noticed my PE teacher was an alcoholic, so I worked out an arrangement where I would leave campus to buy him his daily cup of coffee and newspaper in lieu. At the end-of-the-day, the only legitimate excuse for not graduating from HS is that you couldn't.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#138

Post by rectang » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

amasad wrote: post #131

rectang wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you think of yourself as "fortunate"? People admire and respect those who acknowledge that things worked out well for them, that success isn't inevitable, and that there are many other talented people don't succeed for any number of reasons.

Read my other post. Be grateful. https://amasad.me/grateful

I enjoyed reading both posts very much! Thank you for writing them.

The line about "survivorship bias" also jumped out at me as out of place. It's probably a phrasing thing, but I think granting that survivorship bias could be a factor, even as you assert that it is not a dominant factor, would have made the piece stronger. The way it was phrased seemed to deny the possibility, causing me to raise an eyebrow in skepticism, but that doesn't seem to be what you believe.

I absolutely agree with your central thesis that open source can provide a ladder for the underprivileged. At the same time, it's also undeniable that some people are constrained from contributing to open source due to economic and social circumstances, and I don't think those two ideas conflict. Does that make sense?

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#139

Post by bgorman » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

lockee wrote: post #80

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

I cannot shake the feeling that you're mixing here employability and "being good at ones job" here. Whether a candidate will "get the job done" an employer can only learn after hiring a candidate, so it cannot be used as a recruitment signal. I'm in this situation right now, where I've been always highly appreciated by the place I was working at. I've also built a few systems used by a few companies in a certain nich…

Have you had your resume reviewed by other developers?

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#140

Post by user5994461 » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

gmjosack wrote: post #121

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking past the point. The original comment was: > I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience. > ... employers simply stop caring about education level. The reason he was not asked about education is not necessarily because 'employers by and large don't care', but rather that 'employers that do care about education would've already filtered him out after seeing the resu…

Thanks for clarifying your point, I think that makes a lot of sense. Thankfully for me I consider it a positive selection bias as I wouldn't want to work for a company/manager with such insular hiring criteria. Unfortunately it does make it harder for people just getting started in their career.

Since you mention it, people who have degrees and people who don't have degrees usually work in different companies. Any programmer is unlikely to experience both sides of the coin.