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GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

amasad.me

111–120 of 183 posts

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#111
Thinking about Github-as-resume as strictly positive or uselessly noisy probably means you have an overly simplistic model for evaluating candidates.

I'll share a model that's worked for me in the past. Before you even write the job description, define the 3-7 traits you need to hire against. These can be as fuzzy as "gets shit done" or as specific as "5+ years marketing SaaS to $100k+ accounts" or "is effective at resolving incidents while on-call." You need to be able to rate people on this. Binary is fine ("yes they can get shit done"). 3-4 levels is good (bad / good / total superstar).

Don't go overboard with granularity: you need to fit this all in your head for a couple candidates at a time when you compare them. As you go through your process, try to get good information about at least one of these areas at each step.

My favorite thing to do is, between in-person interviews, be able to tee up the next interviewer with "I got mixed signals about communication style. Can you dig in?" When you wrap up, make sure you cover all the boxes. Don't get smitten with a candidate with amazing experience who can code circles around everybody else who's never worked in a 25+ person team (assuming that's what you agreed was important). When you're ready to make a decision, you now have a reasonable set of trade-offs to make. I tend to create rubrics where solid scores in 3 of 5 categories is a Hire, to allow us to compare different types of candidates.

Ok, back to GitHub.

GitHub can give you VERY STRONG SIGNALS for some of these issues. It's great to be able to know up-front that somebody is comfortable working with teams they don't personally know well (typical in big open-source projects). The convese to that is that I generally expect some strong signal up front from any candidate. If not GitHub, give me a respected company on your resume. A recommendation from a mutual friend. A well-written cover letter. When folks complain about 100s of resumes, it's because the problem is this lack of signal.

An aside: it's on you to allow folks with non-traditional backgrounds to succeed at this step. Write a better job req, or go email likely candidates. Diversity requires multiple ways in. Once you're a bit further, this cuts the other way. If "good communication in pull requests" is important to you, don't spend any time here with candidates who have strong Githubs.

You already have all the data you need. Spend your time elsewhere. There is no extra credit. GitHub can help you a bunch when evaluating candidates, but it's crucial to stay away from this notion that _anything_ during an evaluation that looks like a silver bullet. You always have to do the work of interviewing well, and it's always specific to your company.

Finally: if you have a process that allows you to fully evaluate a candidate by reading their public GitHub, you're almost certainly hiring for the wrong things.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#112
post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm. A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

While that's true, it's also very inexpensive and very easy to get a GED or diploma equivalent. Intellectually if you're in the top ~75%, you can pass the GED with two weeks of casual studying at 20 years old. Even if one isn't particularly smart (or, say, has a weak education background), that can be easily compensated with several weeks of further studying to pass the GED. Every state has free programs for that.

If the person in question can't be bothered with something so inexpensive and easy to obtain, that meaningfully improves their job opportunities, there's a very fair argument to be made about that being a negative statement on their character and work ethic.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#113
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience. Obviously YMMV, but after a couple years of experience, employers simply stop caring about education level.

There's a big element of selection bias: many companies that care deeply about hiring Stanford grads will pass on those who don't mention the school in their resumes. The companies that were willing to give you an interview obviously didn't immediately filter you out. In case there's any doubt, if you don't mention your educational background in your resume people will assume you don't have any college-level degree.

And there are also many of us put in situations of reviewing resumes and interviewing that don't have college experience who don't care what school you went to, or if you even did.

Going to college definitely makes things easier, and I don't advise people to take the path I did but there are paths other than college that still work well for this industry.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#114
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairness and morals in general are leaky abstractions that only apply to a subset of all possible situations. The most "fair" system can't survive a single generation of you allow parents to invest their resources in competitive advantage for their children – which is one of the most basic human desires.

The pull towards corrupt aristocracy is strong all right! But it's worth resisting.

Depends on your personal situation. It's possible it's also worth joining it.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#115
post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

I've recently dropped out of highschool and I've been considering two options: promptly returning to school and finishing my degree or dedicating time to self-educate via the internet. Which pathway would you suggest?

I have always felt conflicted about our current education system because it undervalues creativity and disingenuously puts forth the notion that school is for learning when clearly it is not. Teachers constantly remind us that attending school is imperative to our growth yet fail to explain that we are merely fufiling a social obligation to become stable adults. Education has always been about the indoctrination of social values and the apparent lack of effort by teachers to purvey this speaks quantities of their system. Mind you, I'm not necessarily blaming the teachers nor those who have constructed such educational pillars but rather I'm antagnozing our modern perception of the intended purpose of school.

All I really hear about from students these days is which prestigious school people want to attend but whenever I question them as to why they wish to attend such facilities they respond with "to get a better job" or "to learn more and then get a better job." Is there something not inherently flawed with this kind of logic? We wish to obtain better jobs so we mindlessly waste hours cramming an entire textbook before an examination only to retain almost no knowledge of its contents afterwards.

There are cultural nuances regarding this matter and my anecdotal argument is probably not very strong, but I do believe there is a problem with incessantly encouraging young students to pursue academia for the sake of acquiring a _better_ job. As someone who has always been interested with the philosophy and intrinsic beauty of learning itself, I find our current implementation repulsive. My aversion to school has led me to study various types of -- or perhaps attempts at -- artificial intelligence in the hopes that we may one day supplant this flawed approach to education with a more personalized view that can take into account my preferences.

That being said, I'm still relatively young and by the duty of such a description, naive. There is still so much that I do not know about and I'm wondering now how I should proceed. Being a well informed and tech literate person, could you possibly offer me some quick guidance? Thank you.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#116
post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm. A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

I'm a dropout, myself. When I was growing up, higher education for software engineering _was_ expected in my area, and the norm. It was not as widespread a domain as it is today.

So, know what I did in my interviews? I focused on what I _had_ done. Projects I'd driven to completion on my own merit. I put my heart into my interviews and worked to let my passion and depth show through.

The first place I got a foothold, I was nearly passed over, my resume was so bad. I know, because my boss told me, years later how they almost threw it out. But my interview got me in. Barely. Doesn't matter, it was enough. I pushed my way up from there.

It's not easy to say I'm a dropout. Nor has it been easy to work my way up to where I am. But, who cares? I'm not _owed_ a software development job. I _earn_ a job, by being willing to put in the work, and by not making excuses for myself, and showing I can do it.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#117
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your conclusion doesn't make sense to me. Success is a matter of probability. Someone with a recognizable degree has a higher probability of capturing more of their earning potential. Someone who doesn't have one is more likely to lose potential money to contracting companies and landlords. Spend more time working lower paying jobs and navigating the job or housing market. And to not participate in the upside of comp…

> "Your conclusion doesn't make sense to me. Success is a matter of probability. Someone with a recognizable degree has a higher probability of capturing more of their earning potential." Yes and no. Perhaps the degree is simply correlation? That is, to get a degree you need at least a certain amount of focus, ambition, the ability to start / finish something, etc. The point is, using the degree here is a false flag.…

Those might certainly be factors, but they aren't really relevant for my argument that someone with a recognizable degree has a higher probability of capturing more of their earning potential. Someone without a degree even with the same ambition and focus will face the burden of other things.

Say you join a large tech company, gets a fair amount of stock, enjoy the stock increase and as a result make an additional $100k. That is not an unlikely scenario even in the early stages of a career for someone with a recognizable degree.

If you don't have a degree it is certainly possible to do the same thing, it just isn't probable. For every step where you have to be aware of something, understand it and make a decision the probability of getting it right decreases. And the same is true for housing, career, startups and even relationships.

It doesn't make sense to say that you can succeed if certain things happen. Because it is the if that is the challenge.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big element of selection bias: many companies that care deeply about hiring Stanford grads will pass on those who don't mention the school in their resumes. The companies that were willing to give you an interview obviously didn't immediately filter you out. In case there's any doubt, if you don't mention your educational background in your resume people will assume you don't have any college-level degree.

And there are also many of us put in situations of reviewing resumes and interviewing that don't have college experience who don't care what school you went to, or if you even did. Going to college definitely makes things easier, and I don't advise people to take the path I did but there are paths other than college that still work well for this industry.

You're talking past the point. The original comment was:

> I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience.

> ... employers simply stop caring about education level.

The reason he was not asked about education is not necessarily because 'employers by and large don't care', but rather that 'employers that do care about education would've already filtered him out after seeing the resume'. The interviews from employers that do care about education would never materialize in the first place.

This is not a judgment about the role of education and pedigree, but rather pointing out that any effect would have likely played out in the resume stage.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#119
post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

I've recently dropped out of highschool and I've been considering two options: promptly returning to school and finishing my degree or dedicating time to self-educate via the internet. Which pathway would you suggest? I have always felt conflicted about our current education system because it undervalues creativity and disingenuously puts forth the notion that school is for learning when clearly it is not. Teachers c…

Hi! I have some experience with dropping out and coming back.

My take: go back and finish. The signal you are sending is that you can put your feelings aside and deliver even under less than favorable conditions. You'll also need that inner strength if you decide to go your own way.

Also, if you want to the non-CS route make sure you learn math, especially discrete mathematics and linear algebra. Besides the ability to finish that's the other foundation that will make you truly great at software, especially if you are interested in machine learning.

Beyond that good luck! We need more outsiders in the field.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#120
post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

I've recently dropped out of highschool and I've been considering two options: promptly returning to school and finishing my degree or dedicating time to self-educate via the internet. Which pathway would you suggest? I have always felt conflicted about our current education system because it undervalues creativity and disingenuously puts forth the notion that school is for learning when clearly it is not. Teachers c…

> I've recently dropped out of highschool and I've been considering two options: promptly returning to school and finishing my degree or dedicating time to self-educate via the internet.

There is a 3rd option (if you want to work as a programmer):

You practice programming interview questions in your favourite programming language for a few weeks and start applying for jobs. Companies often hire young talented programmers without university degree in entry level positions because they are cheaper.

After having worked in the industry for 5 years no one cares about your degree anymore. The good thing about this 3rd option is that you are learning on the job what the other students learn at university and you don't have to pay for your software engineering education.

Students often tend to overestimate the importance and the benefits of a higher education. Personally I don't like your second option: "self-educate via the internet" because it won't help you getting a job and you will eventually forget what you have learned anyways. For this reason I prefer your first option and my 3rd option.

Good luck!

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