GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#101

Post by jakobegger » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:30 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #30

amasad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I mentioned, multiple times, that you shouldn't exclude people that don't have a Github profile. All I'm saying is that if you're underprivileged you have this awesome tool, use it. And no I didn't have a lot of free time. I was working and going to school but when you're young you frankly don't need a whole lot of sleep.

when you're young you frankly don't need a whole lot of sleep You do if you have health issues, or mental health issues, or kids (some young people have them), or a long commute, or a second job, or if you're not young ... It's hard to recognize privilege when you have it.

Maybe we should stop complaining about privilege and call it opportunity?

If you happen to have rich parents who pay for the best college, that's an awesome opportunity. Nobody should have to feel bad about taking it!

If you are poor, but happen to have a lot of spare time, that's also an opportunity.

Complaining about privilege is not actionable. Focussing on opportunities is a lot more constructive: We can look for ways to give someone an opportunity!

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#102

Post by user5994461 » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout.

It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm.

A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#103

Post by pmorici » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

This title feels like political click-bait. The first two paragraphs describe what most people would consider a privileged background and the core of the post goes on to discuss the merit of using GitHub as a hiring signal. What the author is really describing is how GitHub can be a way to get your foot in a door or stand out from the crowd where you otherwise don't have any social connections.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#104

Post by rueynshard » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #56

vezycash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good way to end the debate on Github profiles is this: Github profiles are advertisement for programmers. Advertising requires resources - time, money, creativity and commitment and not every business is ready to pay to price. Sometimes advertising pays off, some times it doesn't. No police arrests a business owner for not advertising. Same with github profiles. Decide to have one, contribute a little, much…

Designers have portfolios. Would you do them away as "advertisements" as well? They are much more than that, e.g. they show the skills of the designer.

The key difference is that designers are free to show the work they've done in their current jobs or internships. Programmers usually aren't at liberty to do the same.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#105

Post by KirinDave » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

> Because open-source is good at cutting through the bullshit, it also makes it an equalizer.

That's one heck of a premise.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#106

Post by koboll » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #102

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm. A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience.

Obviously YMMV, but after a couple years of experience, employers simply stop caring about education level.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#107

Post by stealthmodeclan » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

One thing is that since people from not so reputable university get to have very few interactions with those from elite universities, we assume elite university students are lot better at programming.

Today, you can directly take a look at their craft on github, this has given much confidence to those from lower rungs of the society like, hey! I can create better than this person even tho i am not from such an ellite university. This along with the meritocracy in tech levels the playing field where the ones from better universities should found startups by using their connections instead of working for companies

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#108

Post by sidlls » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

cup-of-tea wrote: post #83

switch007 wrote: post #13

The same underprivileged who feel there is no option but to sign a contract assigning all IP to their employer, which at best dissuades them from doing much open source, and at worst, precludes them from doing any coding which isn't for their employer? (I'm talking about the world beyond California, here)

Who is signing away code they write in their own time? If you do that then that's your fault. It's not normal at all.

It's very common for employment contracts to include that. Some states disallow such clauses but not all.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#109

Post by TAForObvReasons » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

koboll wrote: post #106

user5994461 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm. A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

I've never been asked about any education in developer interviews, only experience. Obviously YMMV, but after a couple years of experience, employers simply stop caring about education level.

There's a big element of selection bias: many companies that care deeply about hiring Stanford grads will pass on those who don't mention the school in their resumes. The companies that were willing to give you an interview obviously didn't immediately filter you out. In case there's any doubt, if you don't mention your educational background in your resume people will assume you don't have any college-level degree.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#110

Post by gmjosack » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #102

mmjaa wrote: post #72

I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. I've built systems you've probably used, and/or may still be using. The #1 technical lever I have found worth exploiting, worth far more than anything a university can provide, is the willingness to get the job done. It hasn't mattered if I wrote CP/M code ISR's, PROGRESS 4GL modules, Unix…

>>> I have been working productively as a systems software developer for 32 years. I do not have a degree; I'm a high-school dropout. It's easy to say coming from a generation where higher education was not the norm. A 20 year old saying he dropped out of high school will not be received well in any job interview. 98% of the population can do better than that.

I barely graduated high school in 2002 and there was definitely an emphasis on higher education at that time. My family didn't have the money to pay for college and I knew I wouldn't do well in college, I had a hard time learning from teachers, and didn't even take my SATs. I'd messed around with HTML and copying/pasting JS snippets but was not an early coder by any means.

I got a job doing tech support for a web hosting company at 19 (requirements for getting hired included listing 3 FTP clients, listing 3 e-mail clients, what is whois, and things you could teach to anyone). I worked with many high school dropouts as well.

After getting that tech support job, learning about open source (LAMP stack) changed my life. I didn't have much money but I was able to self study on linux, apache, mysql, php/perl/python with minimal equipment. Over the years open source has provided and avenue that allowed me to better myself to the point I've worked as an SRE for Google/YouTube, a Staff SRE for Dropbox, and starting soon as a Staff SWE at Discord. Open source has given me so many opportunities, made me a better person, and allowed me to provide for my family.

There are a lot of people like me in the industry who care about socioeconomic diversity. I will absolutely interview and hire dropouts if they are driven and capable.