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Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

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Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#81
post #40

I think the "loop" is indeed moving on. The last real mini-revolution this side of the line probably were torrents. The whole social web is just wrong. It's centralized. It's not the web - it is a corruption of it. It is like the great minds who could design truly de-centralized, robust, reliable and truly social structures have all just vanished. There are so many difficult and important problems around but no one w…

> There are so many difficult and important problems around but no one wants to solve them just because there is a huge ???

I have thought about this the other day -- "what has happened to P2P technologies?". There used to be a lot of excitement about it, there was flurry of academic research on distributed consistent hashing, lots of P2P networks appearing, and now, it seems, bittorrent is all that is left of it.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#82
>but the real knowledge and experience seems to be held back because it has to be regarded as a personal asset that might be used to turn a profit somewhere.

You need to move. If you primarily interact in person, you need to physically move. If you primarily interact over the internet, you need to change what forms you use.

This is not how I see the world, especially the open-source world. From my point of view, the open-source tendency to help people for free seems to be bleeding over into the business world. Hell, my direct competitors help me out. And, of course, if you ask questions with the right attitude in the right places, there is a whole lot of free help to be had from the technical community, too.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#83
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good advice, the problem is that you are suffering burn out. !0 years sounds about right. You need to get back to your roots and one way I recommend to do it, is to get into embedded. It gets you back into a small reward loop where little things net positive feedback. The other thing that I recommend to people is get closer to a research discipline. If you are really that burnt out, try applying your trade to…

How do you suggest getting started with embedded programming?

Jack Ganssle is an embedded guru and a great writer, check out everything he's written - books and online.

Start here: http://www.ganssle.com/startinges.htm ("How to become an embedded geek")

Get yourself a simple all-in-one hardware/firmware environment, like the one my company (Silicon Labs) makes: Look for the "MCUniversity Kit", it's $55, here: http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/Pages/MCUniversity.aspx

Or check out http://hackaday.com/2010/08/11/how-to-launchpad-programming-... for info about Launchpad, a cheaper, similar solution from TI.

I've actually used Silicon Labs' MCU University kit, and I highly recommend it. I don't get any money directly from it, but Silicon Labs does pay my salary.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#84
post #43

I actually probably have nearly the same history as you. Graduated about the same time as you. Been fascinated with computing as long as you. And just about as fed up with the current state of things as you. I think the difference between us is I've got some notoriety so I'm looking to at least try to tear down the current situation before I get out of here. I figure might as well give it a shot, and if it doesn't wo…

The hard part here, of course, is coming up with something else to do. While basically sound advise, after years of a wakeup-work-eat-bed cycle while worrying about the negative content of the bank account, thinking around a corner is hard, let alone thinking outside the box. But I'll try not to force the issue and see what comes up.

As someone much smarter than me once said: "Work doesn't necessarily make you happy but it may give you the means to do something to make you happy"

Diversify your portfolio. Don't be all tech. Go sit in a park, learn how to draw (really, more learning how to see), take art or music classes. Realize how rich the world is.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#85
The OSS revolution is far from over; rather, other fields are being infected. There's Open Source hardware and that field now even has conferences. Biology and biochemistry are going "open source." Media is being released under Creative Commons licensing, etc.

Children of Revolutions always go for the buck. The revolutionaries are the idealists, the pioneers, the groundbreakers. Once the field is prepared, that's when commercialization happens. This is not news: it's human history.

You say you're not fascinated by "...offspring of cell phones." Really? You're not amazed that we have the technology to remotely diagnose your car when it breaks down miles from a service station? That an amateur can put together a device that sends him an SMS when the river level is high enough to go white water rafting?

Having learned the technology for the last ten years, the next step is spend ten years applying the technology to change people's lives, not to idolize it simply for its own existence.

You're an engineer? Go build something!

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#86

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Accept that you need a change for now and re-look at it every so often. I've been coding since '84. I've found myself very jaded by computers a number of times in the past and I'm definitely not chasing every technology thread I could be. But hey, sometimes it comes back and you see the same stuff in a new light, or you discover areas that really do interest you, or you combine wha…

Can you provide details of your personal experiences in this regard? (Very curious, not trying to pry.)

Hard to answer. I went through a phase while working for others where I just wasn't coding at home anymore. I did the time at work, but my main interests were elsewhere.

A few things that worked for me:

- Changing to a developer-focused company, where developers aspired to be craftsmen.

- Creating my own app. I can pour my heart into one part of it, no deadlines unless I want them and I learn a million things outside of the code.

- Going to b-school. Lots of ideas/new people, new domains.

- Contracting instead of being full-time. I like the time balance more.

Whatever it was, I rediscovered why I like developing.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#87
You sound burnt-out. I don't think the problem is the field, I think it's you.

Take a year off. If you can't afford a year without working, find some other job in a completely different field, even if it pays much less. Let technology stop being a daily grind and more of an enjoyable hobby again. You can't force the magic to come back, but if you leave it alone, it will probably do so all by itself.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#88
post #26

I've been doing this for 30 years and I'm more jazzed than ever. Wanna know the biggest difference between you and me? I'm pulled. You're pushed. Let me explain... I love building stuff. Nothing gives me a bigger rush than getting something working the first time (well almost nothing). But I couldn't care less about the technology. If an abacus, two tin cans on a string, or some BASIC code on a Kaypro II did the job,…

[edw519] What I really care about is how my software is used. And who uses it

[heliodorj] The main motivator and source of satisfaction for software developers is the human aspect, not the technology itself. Is your product making a difference in someone's life?

I think these two statements show a profound misunderstanding of what motivates a lot (if not most) hackers.

What gets a lot of people into this field in the first place, and is a source of major satisfaction, is, "wow, I can make it do this!"

A true hacker will be say things like:

* "I just turned my toaster oven into a TV remote control!"

* "I just made fully-functional web browser using COBOL!"

No one will ever use the above creations, but the satisfaction is still there for person who accomplished them.

I don't think, at least in the early stages, people who go into this field get excited by who or how many people end up using what they did. It's the pure thrill of getting things done that were not possible before that excites these people.

Of course, there is a second source of major satisfaction, which is to see your creation being used by many other people. This is huge, but I think is a distinct source of satisfaction than the one I mentioned above.

The third distinct source of satisfaction is, of course, making a ton of money from your creation.

I don't know about young programmers these days, but, when I was programming my first Amstrad CPC, I was being motivated mostly by the first type of satisfaction: getting this box to do what I wanted it to. The thought of my programs being used by others and making money from them didn't really cross my mind at the time.

Maybe what the author of the OP is starting to miss is the pure thrill of making something new, something exciting. Building another social networking website, even if it gets lots of users, simply isn't technically challenging or exciting (it is extremely challenging from other points of view, but you won't be breaking any new technical ground)

I think the software industry may be going through what others went through before it:

* Airplanes: In the beginning only "hackers" where in on it, trying to make planes get off the ground. In a few decades, most of the major advances had been made, and new people entering the field just wanted to find ways to use the existing technology to make money (e.g. Frequent flyer miles)

* Telephones: In the beginning, there were lots of technical problems with getting great phone quality over landlines. In a few decades, most technical problems were solved, and people came in to use the existing technology to make money (e.g. "Call 555-1234 to hear your horoscope for $3/min")

Maybe something like this is happening with computers today. Most of the major non-AI problems are solved, and now people are coming into the field to use existing technology to make money (e.g. Facebook, Yelp, Groupon, Youtube, etc)

If and when we get to some decent level of AI, the bar will be raised and a whole new set of problems will be attacked. So, AI-type problems (speaker-independent and accent-independent voice recognition, image search, natural language search, translation between languages, etc) seem like a great area to be in for someone who gets a thrill from making something totally new. Unfortunately, the whole AI field seems a bit stagnant at the moment. It will take someone with a totally new take on how to do things to take AI to the next level.

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#89
post #40

I think the "loop" is indeed moving on. The last real mini-revolution this side of the line probably were torrents. The whole social web is just wrong. It's centralized. It's not the web - it is a corruption of it. It is like the great minds who could design truly de-centralized, robust, reliable and truly social structures have all just vanished. There are so many difficult and important problems around but no one w…

It's not that these projects/people have vanished, they've just been eclipsed by the much louder self-promoting "social web 2.0" community. It's much easier to write naive single-actor code than mutually-suspicious distributed applications.

(also, you're forgetting at least git)

Re: Ask HN: After almost 30 years the romance is over - What now?

#90
post #88
post #26

I've been doing this for 30 years and I'm more jazzed than ever. Wanna know the biggest difference between you and me? I'm pulled. You're pushed. Let me explain... I love building stuff. Nothing gives me a bigger rush than getting something working the first time (well almost nothing). But I couldn't care less about the technology. If an abacus, two tin cans on a string, or some BASIC code on a Kaypro II did the job,…

[edw519] What I really care about is how my software is used. And who uses it [heliodorj] The main motivator and source of satisfaction for software developers is the human aspect, not the technology itself. Is your product making a difference in someone's life? I think these two statements show a profound misunderstanding of what motivates a lot (if not most) hackers. What gets a lot of people into this field in the…

Yes, I'd say you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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