Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#261

Post by meheleventyone » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #186

indigochill wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Reykjavik "too many tourists" is very much a problem. Or more specifically, the ratio of tourists to available housing. Sure, there are solutions. There's a huge housing bubble right now (which will collapse whenever tourism dries up), for instance. Maybe if it keeps on this way some legislation will be passed to get it under control. But both of those solutions are completely out of the hands of the people who ac…

Yep. There are solutions, but it's tough due to demand being so elastic in comparison to housing. In cities such as Reykjavik and Vancouver, they could tax Airbnb and divert the funding to create more housing, but housing construction is a physical process that takes time. Meanwhile in the short term rents are spiking.

In Reykjavik they’ve imposed limits on how long you can let on AirBnB before you need to be licensed and for shared apartment complexes you need permission of your neighbors to run an AirBnB. The downside is that with high demand still from tourists and seemingly poor enforcement it’s still an issue. Anecdotally as a resident of downtown Reykjavik I know that a bunch of places around my house that did the AirBnB thing have stopped and returned to longer lets. Presumably because hotel capacity is reaching more of an equilibrium. Which could be a concern as there is a lot of development still not completed. On the positive side that could open a lot of spare housing capacity for local residents but at an obvious cost as the current housing bubble bursts.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#262

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

soperj wrote: post #251

jessaustin wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends on the family. I had 3 siblings and we traveled a lot. When we no longer all fit on the same bed, I got a folded-up blanket on the floor. Eventually my sister decided she would rather have the floor. My brothers are awful to sleep with...

They normally force you to buy 2 rooms now, that didn't used to be the case.

They've always frowned on it. We had a regular procedure called "heads down!" in which all children or occasionally just three of us would duck down so as not to be visible in the car from the window of the motel office. When my brothers and I travel together now we still do it (mostly) as a joke.

Having stayed in a motel a lot over the last month, I'm pretty confident most parents could get 4-5 kids into most hotel rooms without management being the wiser.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#263

Post by Thriptic » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:08 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #237

Thriptic wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to this problem in tourist destinations or Europe generally as I don't have enough data to have an opinion, but I frequently see Airbnb blamed for high housing costs in some American cities and it strikes me as being a bunch of bullshit. Sure Airbnb doesn't help the rental problem and it is a contributor to rising rents, but the primary problem isn't Airbnb, it's lack of supply of high density apartment…

> it's lack of supply of high density apartment living options. Devil's Advocate: I'd agree that AirBnB isn't entirely to blame, but a large company helping your town's citizen rezone their long-term residential units into short-term residential units and not telling the town isn't going to help the zoning board make correct decisions. Japan has made a good decision to at least butt themselves into the process.

I totally agree, but it's not like this data is hidden. It would be relatively straight forward to monitor how many Airbnb units operate at any given time just by looking at the site repeatedly, and you could approximate how many rentals exist using tax data and corporate data.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#264

Post by DINKDINK » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

kinsomo wrote: post #238

pjc50 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand?

> What does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand? I think this guy is one of those hyper-libertarians who equates government regulation with violence.

>hyper-libertarians

Pacifist, anarchist, libertarian call it whatever you will; at the end of the day you are supporting a system where peaceful people will either be imprisoned or have their property stolen if you don't do what men with guns tell you to do.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#265

Post by irq11 » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #154

lechiffre10 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"AirBnB is already very strict with landlords: it needs to start being a lot stricter with its users too." It's not as strict with landlords as it should be. And while it is strict with users it actually favors landlords and by a landslide. Have you ever rented long term with AirBnB? Hosts can literally cancel the reservation for any reason( Airbnb says they punish for doing so but rarely if ever because the Host can…

The last few times I was tempted to use Airbnb for stays of around a week, I found the price to be comparable to hotels in the area. I ended up getting a hotel, because I wanted my stay to be managed by professionals.

Same. Also, every one of my stays since ~2013 has required customer service interventions, or otherwise had an incident that screwed me somehow.

I’m at the point where I simply will not use AirBnB for travel in an area I don’t already know well. It’s too risky.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#266

Post by Symbiote » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #254

ozim wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a joke because why I would use AirBnB, to have cheap accomodation with kitchen. If the price is around the same as hotel I could not care more. Hotels have to follow a lot of regulations and guest is always right in a hotel. Wi fi not working well, I got upgrade to better room, airbnb host cannot upgrade your room to one with view or else.

It’s hard to upgrade out of other guests near you slamming the door in the morning as they leave though. Or recycled air shared with a hundred other people that can make you sick.

> It’s hard to upgrade out of other guests near you slamming the door in the morning as they leave though

That's funny, that's exactly the issue I had with AirBnB "guests" in my building. Also, them bumping their wheely suitcases down the stairs at 5am for the cheap flight home.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#267

Post by DINKDINK » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

kinsomo wrote: post #233

DINKDINK wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". >The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. How successful h…

> Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper". > How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke o…

>meant to help people who are annoyed

So to summarize you: rights are not inalienable but dependent on if people get annoyed.

Do you see how philosophically weak that position is? Should Muslims be deported because the US government finds them annoying and people 'never chose to live next door to them'? Rights must be grounded in something other than 'popular opinion'.

I'd rather live in a world where I simply have to buy/rent in an HOA which everyone signs a contract stating that we will abide by XYZ rules rather than one where we have to rely on the threat of murderous government.

Government's proposition to you is: Let me kill whomever I want and I'll make your life marginally better. I find it ethically unconscionable to benefit so marginally at the expense of someone else's life.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#268

Post by Tushon » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #247

xapata wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sue the owner yourself That's awful. In the US we have misdemeanor noise violations that carry a fine (or jail time if you refuse to pay). Neighbors will call the police if your party is too rowdy. They'll show up looking for underage drinkers. Usually if you are nice to the cops and promise to be quiet (and everyone they see is 21+) they'll just warn you and not write a ticket.

are certain that the fine could be levied against the owner instead of the actual perpetrator?

If the ordinances don't account for the scenario, they could (and probably should) be updated to indicate that repeat offenses at a rental could lead to a fine to the owner, so that they have a compelling interest to ensure their neighbors have a good experience

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#269

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:25 PM UTC

lebanon_tn wrote: post #259

JohnTHaller wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"AirBnB is already very strict with landlords" Does AirBnB ensure that the landlord/owner is properly licensed to offer the property for a short term rental before listing it? Or do they just take the landlord's word for it? "While most AirBnB renters are polite and respectful, enough of them were loud, disruptive and ignoring the local rules (for example, tourists in Venice who use AirBnB but ignore the very strict…

Pardon my ignorance. What is the benefit / purpose of the license besides added revenue for whatever municipality the rental is in? Is there some kind of inspection or background check process?

One obvious benefit is that the owner or lessor of the place being sublet on Airbnb is often a party to contracts with their community that forbid short-term rentals; for instance, the owners of condominiums have a responsibility shared with all the other owners of condominiums not to compromise everyone's quiet enjoyment expectations by turning their place into a hostel.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#270

Post by Symbiote » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #175

Fede_V wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me flesh out a few very simple proposals: a complaint that a lot of city residents have is that tourists that arrive in a city don't spend a lot of money there because they pack their own lunches/avoid museums, etc. How about charging a very high tax (in the form of a voucher) for hotel/AirBnB stays, but make that voucher spendable in local restaurants/museums? This would have the bonus that you'd also kill the l…

This is the 1st time I've heard the complaint that tourists don't spend money. Where is that a oft-expressed concern? I suspect any voucher system like you propose would just create a secondary gray market in slightly-discounted vouchers.

1. Anywhere where cruise ships are regular visitors. There are often free meals on the ship, and obviously no overnight stays in hotels.

2. Anywhere popular with young tourists (Amsterdam, Berlin etc). This might be limited to Europe, with a €20 flight (or bus) to the city, a bed in a cheap hostel, a visit to all the free things etc. This isn't new, but Couchsurfing and cheap transport have probably increased it.